FMC 030: Bram Stoker’s Dracula Directed by Francis Ford Coppola

Full Episode Transcript
This episode of Filmmaker Commentary Francis Ford Coppola's "Bram Stoker's Dracula," exploring its themes, visual style, groundbreaking practical effects, and the director's unique vision and studio challenges.

Opening Discussion and Film Overview
Reginald Titus Jr.: Filmmaker Commentary episode 30.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Welcome to Filmmaker Commentary, where we give you insights from our favorite filmmaking commentaries. These commentaries can be heard on your DVD and Blu-rays of your favorite movies. We'll show you how you can use these commentaries and apply them to improve your video production and filmmaking techniques. All of this here on Filmmaker Commentary. I'm your host, Reginald Titus Jr.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Welcome to another episode of Filmmaker Commentary. I'm Reginald Titus Jr. I am here with
Casey G. Smith: Casey G. Smith.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Welcome back, sir.
Casey G. Smith: Good to be back, sir.
Reginald Titus Jr.: So today we are going to dive into the movie Bram Stoker's Dracula from 1992, directed by Francis Coppola.
Casey G. Smith: Oh yeah.
Reginald Titus Jr.: So, if this is your first time tuning into this podcast, know that, of course, there's spoilers.
Casey G. Smith: Always.
Reginald Titus Jr.: And two, we listen to Blu-rays and DVDs of your favorite movies. We take those commentaries from these Blu-rays and DVDs, and we get little gems, and we send those to you, so it can help you with your filmmaking and how you're producing your video projects. So we hope this helps you out. We listen to these commentaries so you don't have to. Now, the budget for this film was 40 million bucks. Box office, I'm looking at 82.5 million domestically, and 133 million foreign. Is that correct?
Casey G. Smith: Yeah, I've got, I've got worldwide, uh, 215, so 130 plus 82, yeah, that'd be around 215 million worldwide.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Not a bad deal at all. Not a bad deal at all. Okay. So, this is a definite win. And this movie, very stylistic, uh, had quite a few awards. What are some of the awards that, uh, just pulled in?
Casey G. Smith: So, just from the Academy Awards, uh, in 1993, this won the Oscar for Best Effects for Sound Effects and Editing. It also won for Best Costume Design, and it also won an Oscar for Best Makeup.
Reginald Titus Jr.: So, quick synopsis: Count Dracula, a 15th-century prince, is condemned to live off the blood of the living for eternity. Young lawyer Jonathan Harker is sent to Dracula's castle to finalize a land deal. But when the Count sees a photo of Harker's fiancée, Mina, the spitting image of his dead wife, he imprisons him and sets off for London to track her down. Bram Stoker's Dracula. So what are some themes that you got from this film?
Casey G. Smith: From Bram Stoker's Dracula, a couple of themes that, uh, that I saw in and in surmised from listening to the commentary, uh, was a theme of theatrical illusion throughout, even how Francis Ford Coppola made this film. There's a lot of illusions within and a lot of techniques that were old that were, that were used. Uh, the use of shadows, uh, in terms of, uh, Dracula himself and, and just the laws of nature that, uh, don't work correctly because you are in the realm of the supernatural. Uh, again, tying back into theatrical illusion, the visual effects, and surrealism. Uh, there was a theme of, of that, that, that a man loves the same woman all of his life. Uh, and even potentially into, into the next life. Um, Coppola kind of plays with that theme, especially in dealing with Dracula, and obviously, uh, his feelings between his, his, his deceased wife and Mina. Fear of infection, um, like the vampire infects and these people when they, they are. This really, for me, kind of shows the first time that vampire blood is like a disease. And when people have it, like, it's affecting them and infecting them in very unique ways, and people worry about what happens when infection comes. Now, during this time period in the 90s, some might have alluded to maybe something like, like AIDS. Uh, you know, an infectious disease that, you know, affects, affects blood and things of that nature. Uh, so that theme is there. Seduction. As with most Dracula and even vampire movies or films or shows, uh, sexuality and seduction are always tied in closely to vampires and to Dracula. Uh, technology is a thing that Coppola mentions, even though this is a period piece. The technology they're using at the time is cutting edge. The typewriter, microscopes, uh, different ways of taking down dictation. So technology is, is, is used throughout. The pressure of going against innovation, uh, is a thing that Coppola mentions. Uh, that he experienced, uh, throughout. And
Reginald Titus Jr.: Mhm.
Casey G. Smith: You know, and maybe, who knows, maybe even within the character himself in the movie, you know, Dracula's kind of he's, he's forever kind of tied into the past.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Couple, uh, I had was like, just typical, you know, good versus evil. And, uh, kind of like questioning God, you know, and that being that woven in from the very beginning to the end, you know. You know, when, when the movie opens up, he feels like God's betrayed him. So like, betrayal is like a theme of the film. And then being released, you know, by your love at the end of the film. So he's asking God's questions, but then, you know, his, his, I guess, that'll be his reincarnated, reincarnated wife in a way. Uh, she frees him, allowing him to be with God, supposedly. I don't know.
Casey G. Smith: Yeah. Who knows?
Reginald Titus Jr.: Who knows?
Casey G. Smith: Yeah. Well, he won't get there. Where did he go exactly?
Reginald Titus Jr.: Where? Because that is his punishment for betraying God, but who knows, you know. Um, obsession, just being obsessed with this, you know, with that, um, I guess anger, you know, his love and trying to find her but not being able to really be complete with her. For them to survive, she would have to become what he is, in a way.
Casey G. Smith: Mhm.
Reginald Titus Jr.: So they can live forever. But that's, that's not really what they want it.
Casey G. Smith: Yeah, yeah. So yeah, maybe, maybe the theme of longing, I guess, you know, and it's, it's what you want, what you really want.
Reginald Titus Jr.: This is, um, I like the, I like this film. Yeah.
Casey G. Smith: I'll agree. I, so, how did you first watch Bram Stoker's Dracula? When and then where?
Reginald Titus Jr.: Um, the first, this is my first time watching the movie all the way through. Um, I remember my parents had this film VHS. This came out 92, so I remember the VHS tape and it was like a gray, the gray box and all that and very interesting. But I wasn't really into like time period pieces, you know, if it wasn't happening now and people putting on costumes, just forget about it, you know.
Casey G. Smith: It's too much.
Reginald Titus Jr.: I just wasn't into all that, but you know, I did like watch a few scenes here and there, but man, it was just very, at the time, it felt like real gory, it felt like it was super sexual, so I always was like, this is porn, you know, I'm like turn this off. I don't want to get in trouble watching this, let me turn this off. So I didn't watch the movie all the way through. But, um, that's what I do remember. Anything that was like a time piece, it was super bloody and was confusing to me. When I watched it, it was, it was confusing. I couldn't follow it. Too much was going on. I was like, where the wolf come from? Where is it? Let me, I'm done. I don't have time. But yeah, so, yeah, as a child, uh, I remember kind of briefly watching it, but this is my first time watching it all the way through.
Casey G. Smith: So I, I first watched it also, I was about maybe 13. I was, I was in junior high when I watched it. And I, and I up until now, I'll be honest, I didn't, I didn't remember too much of it. When now going back and watching it, things kind of triggered, but I kind of saw it and kind of forgot about it. Uh, maybe a couple scenes were, were interesting, but I mean, nothing really, nothing has stuck with me all these years. And so this, this kind of feels like watching it all the way through for the first time, or just revisiting it over like 20 years. Yeah. Yeah. So, but man, I, I really enjoyed it. Like this, this going through it this time and and taking it all in, I'm like, this is
Reginald Titus Jr.: It was refreshing to watch this. You know. And before listening to the commentary or looking at any of the documentaries, seeing that, when I, when I watched, I'm like, man, this is a little weird looking, you know, it, it, especially the intro scene, when he's going off to battle. And then in the background, I'm looking at the guys, but they're like kind of like jiggling while they're moving, like, these, are these puppets?
Casey G. Smith: Uh-huh.
Reginald Titus Jr.: And like, why did they choose to do that? And the fact that they were doing this like practically, it felt it, you can feel it.</p
Casey G. Smith: Everything in camera.
Reginald Titus Jr.: You can feel it when you're, when you're watching it. No weird special CGI computer stuff, because at that time, I don't know the time that Jurassic Park came out, but people were, you know, you had, um, what's this, what was the favorite movie that was out in 90, in the early 90s, not Total Recall, but the other one by Schwarzenegger, uh, the Terminator. So the Terminator was doing all this.
Casey G. Smith: Terminator 2, yeah.
Reginald Titus Jr.: They were doing all these computer things. So that was a thing. You gotta have these computer graphics. Everybody, it was like a fad that everybody was, was gobbling up. But the fact that he went in this direction actually makes it feel more grounded and it holds up a lot more.
Casey G. Smith: Yeah, I think it definitely does hold up pretty, pretty well. And when you just once you get into the behind the scenes to see what they did and how they did it, it's pretty, pretty commendable. And it really is a almost like a, like kind of that last piece before everything just changed, you know. One last is like one last hurrah for this era or this kind of filmmaking before you'd really would embrace digital and and and and not so practical, and not so much in-camera stuff. Not that people still don't do in-camera, but it it would definitely become the minority. But this was that kind of last standard of that time.

Favorite Scenes and Character Analysis (Gary Oldman)
Reginald Titus Jr.: What are like some of your favorite scenes or scenes that whenever you think of this film, you automatically pull up?
Casey G. Smith.: Um, I'll tell you one thing, one scene that I'm not going to call it a favorite, but that when I saw it, it, it actually it, it called me back to another, another film. So, it actually the scene with the wolf. The the wolf in, in the, in the garden with her when he's, you know, they're going at it. Like seeing that, I'm like, wait a minute, there's a a similar scene also in, uh, spoiler alert, um, Benicio Del Toro's The Wolfman.
Reginald Titus Jr.: That, ah.
Casey G. Smith: Yeah. Yeah. And and, this is, this is, I, I, I hate to say it, but that's, that's a spoiler. But anyway, it, it remind me of, it reminded me of that. I'm like, that, that very, very similar. Even, even in where it's set, where it's set and where that happens. I'm like, whoa. But anyway, um, that, that stands out to me. Man, the, the, the, the scene of him like rising up out of the coffin, because that's, yeah, that's a, that's a throwback right there.
Reginald Titus Jr.: I like that too.
Casey G. Smith: The way they use the first-person view, the, um, pixela, they call it the pixelation shot. The way they use that, I've seen that kind of shot done in other films, like, like Evil Dead, that kind of tracking shot, but I really, I don't know, I like the way it looks in this for some reason, it, it, I don't know, there's something about it where it just, it seems, it feels like it really, I don't know, it seems like it, it really works. When the, the main protagonist, uh, Harkens, I believe, when he meets Dracula, and they're going around the castle, and just the, the, that, that shadow kind of is doing its own thing. It's, it's so, I mean, it's not really even subtle, but it's just the fact that Harkens kind of doesn't even, uh, doesn't realize what's, what's going on, uh, it's, it's fascinating to me. But I, I just enjoyed that, that introduction. He's, he's trying so hard to, to win the business of Dracula. Whoa!
Reginald Titus Jr.: Yeah, they did.
Casey G. Smith: And it, it's just like, when don't you realize what's, what's going down here, man? And I'm sure there are others. I, I, I just, I don't know, I, I've enjoyed just revisiting this, this film. How about you?
Reginald Titus Jr.: I like the reaction shots, or, um, there's a shot where Keanu Reeves is like getting his hair, uh, he's shaving or whatever. And then, you know, the Dracula comes in and says, maybe you should grow a beard or whatever. But he grabs the, the, the shaving knife from him. And then he turns around towards the camera and licks the blood off of the blade, and he's like,
Casey G. Smith: Yeah, you're euphoric.
Reginald Titus Jr.: I'm like, what? He played that so well, it's hilarious, just the way he pulled it off. And then he's like look, basically right at us, you know, we see him right in our face licking this thing. Like, man, he's really drawn to that. Then there's another scene where, um, Van Helsing, they're, uh, Lucy had turned into a vampire and she has a kid with her and she's trying to, you know, kill the, you know, get the blood from the kid or whatever. And Van Helsing pulls out a cross and it gets on fire, and the way that she reacts to it, she's like, ha. She's like go back backwards into a coffin and all that stuff.
Casey G. Smith: Which they shot in reverse.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Yes.
Casey G. Smith: Which was, I was like, oh, that makes sense. Yeah.
Reginald Titus Jr.: But man, it's convincing. I'm like, wow, that's, that's pretty awesome.
Casey G. Smith: Yeah.
Reginald Titus Jr.: So those two scenes, how those vampires were reacting to the blood or to the, to somebody putting a cross in their face.
Casey G. Smith: Just in general, Gary Oldman.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Yeah.
Casey G. Smith: He is, he's, he, he is, he's one of my favorite actors. And after this, like, yeah, like he's in my, he's in my top 10. No doubt. He's just, he can just do whatever. And in this, so many different costume changes, so many different looks. All the reason why I can see why they, why they won that Academy Award for Best Makeup, because man, he goes through so many different looks and whether he's, you know, in his early years as the Count to to when he's the suitor on the street in, in modern-day London to old Dracula to
Reginald Titus Jr.: When he's wearing the armor, the armor, the Draculas' armor. I feel like I was watching a play. That's what it felt like, because it felt like everybody was over the top, and I'm like, why are they, why are they choosing to go in this direction? And but it was, it was, it was enjoyable. But then understanding, you know, uh, Francis Coppola's background, and knowing he comes from the stage and that he's really into the arts. And making a decision and sticking with the tone.
Casey G. Smith: Yes. Absolutely, they did throughout. Stuck, stuck with that. And you know, Oldman's kind of known for kind of being more, more of an over over-the-top, who is? Gary Oldman, kind of known for being over and over-the-top kind of, uh, actor in his performances and I guess very theatrical and he, yeah, he brings it.

Siskel & Ebert Review and Other Media Consumption
Reginald Titus Jr.: We're gonna cut to Siskel and Ebert to talk about what they thought of the movie at the time. When we come back, we're gonna talk about movies that we watched over the past weekend and then we're gonna go dive right into the commentary right after this break.
Casey G. Smith: Francis Coppola's version of Dracula does not have a strong narrative thread to draw us from the beginning to the end of the film. It feels actually more like an opera with a lot of very emotional climaxes and not much logic in between. And that is both a strength and a weakness. I like the way this movie looked and felt and I like the energy the actors put into their performances. There were times when they seemed to be playing for the audiences in every theater in the multiplex. I like the production design, the costumes, the lavish and seductive photography. I liked all of that. What never really moved me very much were the characters. I didn't believe their emotions. They seemed to be playing for effect rather than for motivation. But still, it's a good-looking movie. I recommend it for what I liked about it, but not for the reasons.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Yeah, and I, and I'm voting thumbs down, Roger. It is a great-looking picture, but boy, that's all I saw. Um, the, I was interested early on in the Gary Oldman Dracula, the old Dracula. I thought that was an interesting creation. He looks like some kind of weird grandmother with a beehive hairdo. I thought that's fresh rather than the cloaked prince that we're usually getting in films. But beyond that opening sequence, I don't think that the Winona Ryder character was very charismatic at all. Keanu Reeves as the lawyer, I thought was kind of in another century, well, he is in another century, but I thought it was maybe the 20th century. Uh, and, uh, I thought it was very disorganized and, um, yes, Coppola is a master of the visual, but, uh, I thought it was a pretty empty picture. Well, the important thing with a movie of this length and complexity is to have a storyline that is clear enough, driven through so that people know at every moment exactly who is who and why, and whether we care about them and what's going to happen next. And here you have, as I said before, set pieces in which everything spins around in beautiful pictures, but there's no real emotional hook. So then why do you give it thumbs up? I love the way it looked. Well, I like the way it looked. There has to be, uh, you know, thumbs up, thumbs down is such an arbitrary thing. Not arbitrary. This movie does things with the visuals of vampirism and the Dracula legend you have not seen done before. I mean, the sets, the costumes, the atmosphere, the music, the special effects. I know you were bored during it and I was bored too. I really was. Coming up next. I'm glad you're a mind reader. Maybe you could get a job in the next picture doing your act or something. Thank you.
Reginald Titus Jr.: All right, uh, what movies did you watch this past week?
Casey G. Smith: So I had the pleasure of of watching Three Billboards Outside of Ebbing Missouri, which was, uh, quite, excuse me, Ebbing Missouri, not Ebbing. Three Billboards Outside of Ebbing Missouri, which came out in 2017, directed by Martin McDonagh. Uh, starring of course from, uh, Fargo fame, Frances McDormand, who actually won an Academy Award for the role that she played, uh, in the film. Also, Best Supporting Actor went to Sam Rockwell, which both of these two actors, they, they earn these Oscars. Their, their performances are amazing. When I saw them get their Oscars, I was like, yeah, okay. But I hadn't seen the film. Now that I've seen it, I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah. You, you, you win. But, it's very enjoyable, very well-written script, very, oh man, fantastic script, the, the dialogue throughout, it's, it's, it's, it's sharp, it's, it's witty, but it's all, all heartfelt. Woody Harrelson also is, is in the film. He's, he's great. I mean, he's always solid, but he's, he's really, really good. I didn't know much about the film beyond what I'd seen in the trailer. Much you've seen in the trailer is, is not much of anything. And so, it, it, it goes so much deeper. It's more layered and more complex than what you see and it's, it's played out beautifully. I recommend it. If you haven't seen Three Billboards Outside of Ebbing Missouri, I, I recommend checking it out.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Sounds pretty good.
Casey G. Smith: So if you're a film fan, solid film.
Reginald Titus Jr.: I didn't really just sit down and watch a film really this weekend. This week, it was kind of busy. But outside of, you know, of course, the Dracula film, I watched an episode of Suits. We still watch Suits. It's a, are you familiar with the USA TV show? Yeah, USA. It's one of the few shows that you can still watch without being bombarded with a lot of graphic nudity, sex. They drop a few, you know, words here and there, you know, but it's one of the few shows that you get a theme. There's like a clear-cut theme for every single episode, and you can usually pick it up because the different characters are within that theme. Uh, whether you're dealing with loss or, um, whether to go forward with a loved one, like you can catch on to what the theme is for the show. And there's different themes every single show. Um, so that's, that's good to see. But, you know, you do not just bombarded with a bunch of crap that you, you know what I mean? Like, it's one of the few things you can do, you can watch and not be bombarded with a bunch of stuff. And I can appreciate that sometimes.
Casey G. Smith: Okay.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Um, another show kind of like that is, um, I watched an episode of the, the Seinfeld show, which is the Comedian
Casey G. Smith: Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Which should be the most boring show ever, but it is not. So, I watched the episode with, um, with, uh, Martin, Steve Martin. Is it Steve Martin with the all white hair? The comedian?
Casey G. Smith: Steve Martin, yes.
Reginald Titus Jr.: So that was a good episode. So I watched that episode and that was pretty much it for my watching movies this week. And I skimmed through Avengers Age of Ultron, but that was just fun just to let my son kind of watch some of the action sequences. There was no, really no reason for me watching it. I was like, oh, play this real quick.
Casey G. Smith: Hmm, nice. I also, I, I started watching, uh, Matt Groening's new Netflix animated series Disenchantment. And I'm about five, five to six episodes in on that and.
Reginald Titus Jr.: How long are the episodes?
Casey G. Smith: Uh, I want to say they're like 30, 30 to 40 minutes.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Does Netflix pull the thing where it's like, as soon as the episode's done, they like try to throw you right into the next episode?
Casey G. Smith: Oh, you know it. That's, that's the name of the game, my friend. That is the name of the game. But it has been, it's been really enjoyable. And yeah, the episode's about 30, yeah, they're about 30 minutes.
Reginald Titus Jr.: How many, how many episodes?
Casey G. Smith: This first season is only 10, 10 episodes.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Okay. That's good.
Casey G. Smith: So yeah, I'm, so I'm half, halfway through, but again, it's, it's like Simpsons, but definitely like Futurama meets Game of Thrones. Kind of, kind of, kind of vibe going on. And there are even some
Reginald Titus Jr.: Oh, I'm checking that out.
Casey G. Smith: quotes.
Reginald Titus Jr.: 'Cause I, I thought about it when I saw it. It was like on Reddit, and I was looking at some things on Reddit and that was popping up. I'm like, wonder if this is any good? The trailer makes me kind of want to, but do I want to devote the time? I don't know.
Casey G. Smith: And see, that's what I thought also. And then once I, I watched the first episode, and I was like, okay, I had a couple moments that, that, that, that made me laugh out loud, like legit laugh out loud. And I'm like, okay. And I kind of just let it keep rolling. And it's short enough. Again, only 10 episodes, 30 minutes a piece. You know, from a binging standpoint, that's, that's really light. That's like, that's like somebody being very, very nice to us.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Okay.
Casey G. Smith: 30 minutes, 10 episodes. Yeah, go ahead.
Reginald Titus Jr.: We're gonna dive right back into the show.

Deeper Dive into Filmmaking Techniques and Themes
Reginald Titus Jr.: Okay, this movie has of the doc, if you get the Blu-ray, it has like four documentaries on it. Uh, one of the documentary is, is called The Blood is Life, and it's basically going through the making of Dracula. It gives like history and kind of what Dracula represents. And, uh, Francis Coppola, he comes off like he's this is like his thing, you know, he's done all the research, he's included like his background from music, from the arts, everything that he can bring, he brought his A game to this. And sometimes you can tell when when somebody's slacking on their job, whether that be an actress, whether that be a producer, or a director, but out of anybody that's slacking, the director cannot slack because it's gonna just trickle down from there.
Casey G. Smith: Yeah, definitely. Your, your, your team, teams, plural, will, will feel that energy, will, will see that lack of discipline, that lack of focus, and if, and if, and if you're not bringing it, why, why should they? Where, where is their hope gonna be that this project is going to turn out great if their leader isn't up up to, up to par. But you're right, Francis Ford Coppola he was the right guy for the job. He had, he was familiar with the book and had read it multiple times, used to read it to his, his, his, he would volunteer as a counselor at a camp, he'd read it to the, to the kids there.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Like, who's reading that? Just think about that. Just that by itself, who first off, who is actually reading this book? Then, who is reading this book to their children?
Casey G. Smith: That's something else. It, it makes me interested to, to, to, to listen to it on audio, just to hear it for myself, especially after watching the film to see what differences there, there are. And again, especially with that love story piece. But, yeah, Francis Ford Coppola, he was, he was the guy, and he was uniquely qualified because of that, I think because of that connection to the original piece.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Mhm.
Reginald Titus Jr.: And being well-read. This movie serves, you know, our audience that's listening to us do this, but also doing research for one of our own films. And seeing, uh, the vampire being out during the day, you know, that's one of those things, like, are you gonna make that decision? Who, what's gonna determine that? And Francis Coppola, of course, did the research and, yes, a vampire does. He can be out during the day.
Casey G. Smith: Right. Powers are, are maybe, or maybe weakened. And yeah, always just making those decisions about what tropes, because even if you watch the, the show HBO's True Blood, there are different tropes that, that they'll throw out, like vampire-wise. Oh, this, this, this, yes, is an effect. That, no, that doesn't mean anything. Um, but even you see like, you know, like, like the, like with the cross, like, depending on, I guess, maybe the vampire's level of power. Um, with the younger, uh, Lucy, you know, and when the cross is presented to her, it seems to have effect. But with Dracula, he, he, sees it, and he sets it on fire. You know, like, oh, wow. And the fact that he was, you know, once previously a spiritual man, which I, I also, I, I really dig the, I dig the fact that, that we, that this, this really, as much as Dracula doesn't have a soul, this, this movie gives him a soul.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Yes.
Casey G. Smith: It humanizes him, so much.
Reginald Titus Jr.: It's not just a monster that's going around killing people. Even though that's what he's doing.
Casey G. Smith: Oh yes.
Reginald Titus Jr.: But he actually has a goal.
Casey G. Smith: Yeah. He's a tragic figure also to a degree, because when you look at the beginning of how he, he was devout, you know. And the fact that even the, the, the name, the title of Dracula, you know, Son of the Dragon, from the Order of the Dragons, of those who were there to defend these Romanian churches. I'm like, whoa. This guy was like a crusader, you know, almost and, and was impaling his victims and like
Reginald Titus Jr.: Vlad. The Impaler.
Casey G. Smith: Vlad. The fact that he would come back and I, I just love the way it's played at the beginning where he's seeing his, his, his, his wife dead in this Romeo and Juliet, you know, kind of moment.
Reginald Titus Jr.: It's some correlation between this movie and the first fly that we saw.
Casey G. Smith: Ooh, I see you. Call back, Reginald. Call back.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Boo-yah.
Casey G. Smith: Mmm.
Reginald Titus Jr.: You know, you got them in love and then what happens at the end?
Casey G. Smith: She's got to take him out. Yeah. Take it to the head.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Yeah.
Casey G. Smith: Yeah, I mean, yeah, you're, you're, you're, you're right, yeah. He, he, he tries and, and, and, and it's also the, the man that has become the monster, who is trying to turn his loved one into something almost monstrous just so they can be together.
Reginald Titus Jr.: There you go.
Casey G. Smith: Ooh, boo-yah. Wow, wow.
Reginald Titus Jr.: That's what happens when you research, people.
Casey G. Smith: Mmm. But, yeah, research is, is, is a very powerful thing.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Another one of the documentary is called The Costumes are the Set. And it, and it goes into costume design by Eiko, Eiko Ishioka, and who won an award, right? She won an Oscar for her costume design. And I, and I truly recommend, you know, going through these documentaries because you find out like how heavily everybody's involved in their thing. And she was more of like an art director, production designer, not necessarily known for like being a costume designer. But from Francis Coppola, from his standpoint, he's like, well, you designed all that, you can design this. This is the set, you know?
Casey G. Smith: Yes. That was, that was a big deal for him. I know you're going to talk about, you know, uh, difficult decisions that have to be made, but he wanted the costumes truly to be the thing that stood out to, to the viewers. And they're quite, quite wonderful. Uh, and they're colorful and
Reginald Titus Jr.: Memorable.
Casey G. Smith: Oh yeah.
Reginald Titus Jr.: There's another documentary called In Camera and it's talking about the, the visual effects of Dracula. How the director's kind of at war with trying to tell what asks the people what he wants, the, the people that are producing these special effects. And they're trying to lean him to doing the effects how they see it should be done instead of just following his direction on it. So he had to kind of get rid of these people. And this, uh, documentary talks, uh, kind of shows how his son, his son was raised in this style and knows exactly what his dad wants. So he's working on, you know, being the second unit director, which is shooting all the stuff that's not the main stuff, then also coming up with the practical effects. And especially being a younger person, you know, a young person has that drive, that energy, that ambition, and to prove other people wrong.
Casey G. Smith: Totally. On, on a major studio film, when your dad directed The Godfather, you know. And Roman, I mean, kudos to Roman Coppola because he, he went in and pre-visualized everything. And everything in the film, from the most part, is shot in camera. And whether it's projecting things on the screen, whether it's using miniatures, and they hearken back to so many older classic techniques, brought them back and, and use them to, to pretty good effect. Like you said, there are a lot of things that even though we know the film is older as a production, and of course, we know it's set, you know, in an older time period as a period piece, there are some things now that would hold up better than some of the digital or, or, or other kind of visual effects from this time period.
Reginald Titus Jr.: In the documentary, his son is in front of a green screen, he says, it's funny when we're shooting in front of this because we didn't use any of these special effects.
Casey G. Smith: That was a nice touch.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Yeah. There's another documentary called Method and Madness and it's called, you know, visualizing Dracula and how they were storyboarding and Peter Ramsey, who was, uh, one of the artists, also an African-American man, gotta always gotta represent. Yep. Uh, and just kind of how they're, uh, how the director was pushing them to be creative and just use the images that you're creating, no matter how creative they are, we're, we're figuring out how to put this into the actual film, no matter how crazy these ideas are. And they kind of show you the how like the castle is being manipulated and they're, they're drawing these things and how they're put into matte paintings and making it happen.
Casey G. Smith: Which there were quite a few of in this, in this film. Especially when have like, you know, when the, when the, the carriages are, are riding up to
Reginald Titus Jr.: That's right.
Casey G. Smith: Dracula's castle, you know, it's a painting. Uh, a lot of the, the different countrysides and landscapes and, and, and seas. And that's, and with that, that's worth mentioning that the majority of this film was all done on sound stages.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Wow.
Casey G. Smith: Which is that's impressive. I would have, I would, if he hadn't said that, I wouldn't have believed that. I thought, oh, they were on location somewhere and they traveled across the world. But, no, they did the most of this on a sound stage.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Very impressive. Also, for our listeners out there, if you hear some sounds in the background, it's raining, so don't let that throw you off.
Casey G. Smith: Yes, it's just the, the
Reginald Titus Jr.: Just in case if it's picking up. I don't know if it is or not, but if it isn't, if it is, that's what's going on.
Casey G. Smith: If it is, welcome to the quiet storm.
Reginald Titus Jr.: There you go. Filmmaker Commentary edition. So let's dive right into the commentary. So the commentary was, uh, he recorded in 2006. You know, he does his introduction, you know, he's got etiquette.
Casey G. Smith: Thank you, Mr. Coppola.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Appreciate that. And at the time, he was 67 years old. Um, the commentary, this is A1.
Casey G. Smith: Well, high praise from Mr. Reginald Titus.
Reginald Titus Jr.: A1. Because it's a mixture of, you know, history. He's like, fully engaged in the commentary. Um, and even though, like, God only knows if he would have recorded, you know, the commentary, you know, earlier, like how much he would have, because also too, he's trying to recall some things, and he's might have forgotten how certain effects were created, um, him, you know, him being older, and him not necessarily being over there practical effects. And that's why it's important for these documentaries to be on there because it's, it's literally showing you how they did these things. And Roman was the one responsible for all that, while he was worried, while, you know, Francis got his own set of problems.
Casey G. Smith: Very true. And the, the tandem of the team really makes it possible. And he's, I, I've never listened to any other commentaries with Francis Ford Coppola before. And I, I didn't, I didn't know much about him. Again, all I knew was him by name and having directed The Godfather. Really, those are the main things. And I didn't know what to expect from him. Would he have a lot of hubris? Yeah. But he comes across as, he comes across as passionate. He comes across as humble at the same time. But that, you know, when he has a vision, he's, he's gonna go for it. And he's gonna, he wants to give, he wants to give his best and truly make unique, quality projects. He seems to be like really dedicated to, to quality of, of, of craft in whatever he's working on, that if you're gonna do it, you're gonna do it all the way. And you need to say something new and, and worthwhile.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Definitely stands out from the littered graveyard of Dracula films, this stands out.
Casey G. Smith: Yeah, yeah, it does. I'm, I'm just looking at the, the key art and at the very top of it, it says, Love Never Dies. Like what a great tagline.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Ah, yeah.
Reginald Titus Jr.: And I always wonder too, on this, um, on this Blu-ray, there's an introduction by Francis Coppola, and he speaks about why it's called Bram Stoker's Dracula instead of just Dracula. Mhm. Did you want to talk about that?
Casey G. Smith: Obviously, this is based off the book Dracula by the author Bram Stoker. Right. Short for Abraham Stoker. Now, an interesting thing with even the development of this of, of Bram Stoker's book about Dracula, is a combination of the historic character of, of Vlad. Vlad of Jab, Vlad the Impaler. Yeah. Um, of, you know, of, of, of Romanian, uh, history. But also the themes and the workings and the mythology of the vampire. I think there's a book out called Vamp, um, that is highly influenced. And I don't know if you, um, heard them when they were talking about this, Reginald, when they talk about how, then when you go all the way back to like Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, like when that book was, was written, there's a group of four people, Lord Byron, Mary Shelley, I think Lord Byron is maybe Mary Shelley's husband. I have to double check that. Um, and there was another gentleman who was there also. When she wrote that, that, that book, or that, that, that horror story about this, this mad-made monster who kind of walked with a limp. Lord Byron had a limp. Um, and then when you have this kind of large, nocturnal character that could kind of, uh, get people affixed upon them. Um, Dr. Polidori, he wrote the, the vampire, um, book. Varney the Vampire might, might be the name of it, which influenced Bram Stoker's book. But it's, it's interesting these two classic tales all came from literally a group of four people spending the night at this, this castle. Um, but, yeah, using that title, uh, it, it made it stand out from the, the litany of other Draculas that are out there. But Coppola does says this. He says that Nosferatu, the silent film Nosferatu, he still hails as the, the best Dracula film that's out there.
Reginald Titus Jr.: I have not seen that one.
Casey G. Smith: Hmm. I've, I've seen bits, I've seen bits and pieces.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Yeah, it's like part of history. It's one of those movies, those clips always come up.
Casey G. Smith: Well, I remember when I was a kid, when I would see his, his, the imagery of him, this, I mean, bald-headed like sharp-playing guy, that, it would, it would, it was disturbing to me. Like, oh, I, yeah, that actually as a kid, that was like, whoa, more shocked than by Bela Lugosi's Dracula. Nosferatu actually startled me.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Yes. So firing is necessary, even if, you know, especially if you're not getting the vision, and we talked about that previously just on the documentaries. But he had to let some people go, you know, to get what he wanted. He, and it shows on some of the behind-the-scenes. He's like, I'm not getting what I want. He's expressing this, I'm not getting what I want. I want creativity. It seemed like it was always like a battle. It seems like he's battling the studio, whether that be for money or, you know, to kind of understand what his vision is. Which, you know, from the studio side, it could be scary too, because you come back and you see these people in this outlandish stuff, you're like, bro, what are you doing? You got 40 million bucks, like, what are you doing with our money?
Casey G. Smith: Yeah, and that's one of those the fascinating, um, trust between the creative and the producers and, and the studio, like, okay, how are you handling this? And how do you measure how well a film is going? I mean, it's a, it's a process, right? And every film is a little bit different, which I think is why sometimes studios want to have sometimes not as much venturing out, because it's, okay, if you follow this formula, then we may feel like we're minimizing our risk. But sometimes you have to trust the vision of the director, especially if they have proven success. And, you know, let them, let them do what they do. I mean, it's, it's always gonna be a risk. I mean, even, even when we have follow formulas fail sometimes.
Reginald Titus Jr.: He mentioned that, um, since there's so many movies being made on Dracula, that you want to approach it in a new way. And he's like, you have to like make a decision. Do you want to approach it in a more real, like this could happen in the real world type of situation? Or do you want to approach it in a surreal fashion? And of course, he went with surrealism.
Casey G. Smith: Oh yeah. Which I'm so glad. I'm, I'm, I'm glad that he went that way and that it's just that once Vlad made that decision to to, I mean, I mean, literally like he, he renounces God, like right there in front of the priest. They're like, what are you doing? And I mean, I mean, stabs the cross and the blood starts coming out. And then he, and then he drinks from the blood and he says he'll raise his own dead. I'm like, dude, you're really angry right now. Are you really sure about what you're doing? Which he wasn't. Come on, the guy wasn't. But man, what he became, how he just persisted throughout. I mean, he, he literally cursed himself. Um, but again, this was a different take. Like, like we said before, the visually it was a different take. Even aability-wise, I've seen, I've seen Dracula take all kinds of forms. I've never seen him become the wolf. I, I, I hadn't seen that in previous Dracula films, which also makes it seem like he is the wolfman almost. I'm like, are they saying the tales of that are coming from Dracula as well? Um, and the, yeah, just so many different things. And, and again, the day walking that he, that he does and even the, even just the, the, the powers that he has from a telekinetic standpoint, that even while he's on the ship, and he's making his way towards Mina, even though she's at Lucy's party and there's other suitors there, you see that, you see that shadow. Right. Kind of drawing, like, drawing close. But this dude's still on a ship. I'm like, man, this, the, the powers that this guy has are just next level.
Reginald Titus Jr.: And, and talking about that shot, there's, you know, you see the ship at sea and it's moving back and forth, then you cut to, um, Lucy and Winona, Mina. And they're walking around and it's moving. This, you know, the screen's is moving left and right and shaking. And, and using the juxtaposition is what he calls it to connect those two scenes as this have an influence on the other scene. He said, hey, you have these tools in your arsenal, use them.
Casey G. Smith: Yeah. That his whole, even his, his coming to London is affecting the weather and the wind and the rain. And again, that, that sensuality that, that he brings is already affecting them when they're running through the garden in the rain and. I'm like, man, this dude is, like, it just, like this next, this next level, man. Like, but I mean, how do you, how do you defeat that? And I really think the only way you, they could have won is because in his heart, he didn't really want to win. Because if he really wanted to win, he could have turned her without hesitation. I think to, to a certain degree. But he still had a heart, I guess, at the end. It's layered, complex. I love it. I love it.
Reginald Titus Jr.: You gotta establish your world. So establishing the world, you know, he wanted a vision of when you cross the threshold, which is also known in Dracula world, that, um, you have to give permission, right, to come in?
Casey G. Smith: Yes, or, or invite a vampire into, a vampire cannot come into your home unless you invite them. No, I guess in their world, you could you cross, cross over unless you accept an invitation on their part.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Got to love it. And so, and the way that he illustrated those was very important is when Keanu Reeves, when this character's like walking across, he kind of zooms in on this part. He's like, oh, this is important.
Casey G. Smith: And then what he does, he ties the, he ties that back in with the mafia. And he says that when he worked on, on The Godfather, um, one of the gentlemen there, uh, I, I can't recall the name, but that guy told him that the mafia kinda operates the same way that the mafia won't come into your life, uh, unless you have invited them. Maybe you've accepted some kind of gift or something like that. But if, but if you haven't done that, then, they're not gonna mess with you. They're not gonna come into your life unless you, you invite them in or you accept something from them. Uh, and that's why he said he's never had any interaction, personal interaction with the mafia or gangsters because when he, he learned that early on, in making the film, and knowing that, he knew how to to tread and and work his way around that. But I found that correlation interesting.
Reginald Titus Jr.: That's crazy. So yeah, so in this world, as soon as he crosses that threshold, you know, you see the water that's going upside down. You see all these weird things that are happening. We're being introduced to Dracula, and like you were saying, his shadow is just doing, doing its own thing. While he's talking to Keanu Reeves, like the shadow is like strangling, trying to strangle the guy. So all this stuff is going on. And they accomplished that by, they were shooting a, a separate actor doing all the shadow stuff. But just, I mean, just working your lighting to accommodate that. All right, we've got to get rid of your sha- shadow. And then project another one on there. And again, not digital, in camera. All right, we're live, we're rolling. Okay, let's get you to move and and trace, but not be in the scene, your physical form. That's just, wow. It's next level, man. Coppola, he talks about, um, before we go into the sex scenes, but there's also another effect where I was talking about Keanu Reeves, how he was, you know, shaving. And you from our perspective, you see the back of his head in the foreground of the shot, in the background of the shot, you see the mirror, and you see that's Keanu Reeves. Uh, Francis Coppola, he was like, I don't know, I don't remember how I shot this shot. But then Roman Coppola was saying, oh, we did a, we set this shot up by doing a double set. So the person that you see in front of us, the back of the head of Keanu Reeves, isn't really Keanu Reeves, it's another actor. Mhm. And then Keanu Reeves on the other side looking at us, and we think it's a mirror, but it really isn't. And then so shots with, um, the hand coming in and, and all that, uh, you're able to pull this stuff off. But basically, the other actor has to mimic what you're doing. Oh yeah. And that's, those are, um, techniques that have been used a long time, like back in the 20s, the old Dr. Jekyll and and and Mr. Hyde with Fredric March, scenes where he's in front of a mirror, they use that same technique, have another actor there, and, yeah, so that's a classic technique once again. Yeah, they were able to pull that one off and can't tell. But any rate, uh, he talks about sex scenes are always weird, you know, we, we talked about this over and over how people approach sex scenes, and how they're weird. The only person was Darren Aronofsky, who was like, who actually enjoyed shooting this, I'm a pornographer or whatever, is what he said. It's few and far between that you, you would find these, these masters of, of getting emotions of things that are people, and you, you know, you, you, you might have a misconception that for the actors and all that, that, that, oh, they're just itching to be to free, be free and act and, yes, let me just go for it. But no, it's, it's awkward for, yeah, just about everybody. And, and, but it's one of those things where you power through it. And I like when directors are, are, are very thoughtful about when, how and why they would use sex. With characters like Dracula, again, there's that seduction aspect, and the fact that these women rise up out of this, this bed, the brides of Dracula. And they're, I mean, they are seducing Keanu in, in, in every kind of, of way, and, but they're setting him up for the kill. You know, some people use, you know, worms as bait for fish, uh, but, you know, these women are using their bodies as bait for, for Keanu. And they're ready to drain him and devour him. But instead, Dracula brings in a baby. Yikes. It's funny how he was like, you tell him like, telling the women to disrobe, like, Roman, you tell him. He's like, no, you tell him, I ain't gonna tell him. Like, who's gonna be the guy that tells the other woman to be naked? Like, hey, we need you to disrobe real quick. Yeah. And he says, even though, even though like, you, you, you let them know in advance what, what this, what this role is going to entail, that there's going to be nudity. Even then, people can still feel, you know, a little uncomfortable or nervous, and
Casey G. Smith: What's her name? Um, the one that came up, like the first lady that came out.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Monica.
Casey G. Smith: Monica, from Irreversible. So, like, she's free. Like, a lot of movies she's in, she's like, hey, you know, I'm doing my thing. So, it's
Reginald Titus Jr.: Yeah. She's beautiful. She's a, she's a beautiful woman.
Reginald Titus Jr.: You were talking about the, the pixilation shots, which is on the perspective of Dracula as a spirit, kind of walk, kind of going everywhere. But in order to achieve this shot, you're basically shooting at one frame per second. When you're normally shooting films, you know, you're shooting 24 frames per second or 23.976 if it's digital. And when you're shooting at one frame per second, it's like, you get a picture and then, you know, it, you're moving and then it shoots another one. Move and it shoots another one. So, it's like you're, you're missing information in between the movement. And so it gives you that little juttery, shutter feel. Jittery, shutter feel.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Also, another, uh, he talks about the tradition of like immortalizing other filmmakers. And other filmmakers feel like they're, if you're stealing from them, that it's not stealing, it's like you're immortalizing them. So if you use a shot that's, that's an iconic shot, um, that's a way that that filmmaker can live on. And one of those examples was the Stanley Kubrick shot, you know, when he comes and bites, I think he kills Lucy, right? He kills her. And then the blood just floods the room.
Casey G. Smith: Yeah.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Like, yeah, that's so gross. But, you know, it's, it's over the top, you know, but, you know, what, what better person to copy than Stanley Kubrick?
Casey G. Smith: Hey, there you go. And there's definite homages, but yeah, that one definitely was one. Also, when Lucy dies and she's in the coffin, she's in the glass coffin.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Oh.
Casey G. Smith: That is an homage to Snow White. Because when she dies, she's in, she is in, very much so, in the glass coffin. That's just a, when he watched that movie as a kid, it it stuck with him. And so he brought that imagery back. And that, um, that worked for him.
Reginald Titus Jr.: And he talks about like how he was working with the studio, and he's like, hey, I'm ahead of schedule, I'm ahead of schedule, so I basically saved money. So the money that I saved, can I use this to to work on these other effects? Mhm. Initially, they say yes, and then, you know, some time went to buy. The some executive comes and basically gives him reasons why they can't
Casey G. Smith: Said, go ahead.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Yeah, yeah. He said their accounting systems were somehow off. There was a glitch in the accounting system. They did not have it.
Casey G. Smith: That's not good.
Reginald Titus Jr.: You could tell this really disturbed, uh, Coppola. He, he, it. And from there, he kind of has, you know, not the greatest things to say about the, about the studio system. He seems to be very, like, he'll work with them if he has to, but he doesn't really enjoy working in, in, and within the studio system. It seems like he's more, like, real business-minded, so he knows where the money's at, you know, as a business person. We'll talk about a little bit later just, you know, one of his other films towards the end that bothered him. The studio had, that's, so they said that he won't be able to, you know, use the extra money that they said they would be able to use. And so he had to come up with different ways to shoot, you know, to reshoot that, was it the intro scene that they had to reshoot and they kind of used more practical, uh, puppets and things like that.
Casey G. Smith: Right. And I think it was some things towards in the, in the third act, uh, as well. When they're, when he's in the cave, when, when, when Mina and Van Helsing are in the cave, and, and the brides of Dracula show up. And they're starting to seduce, uh, and they end up like killing the horses or whatever. Like there was, there was money gonna be putting into, into those scenes as well, but
Reginald Titus Jr.: God, it.
Casey G. Smith: But yeah, they had to make adjustments.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Also, going back to the, the sex scene, there's, uh, they did some shots in reverse. You know, when Dracula comes in, the girls are like kind of shook like, ah, then they all doing the jutter, shutter effect or whatever. They're being pulled in reverse, but you see like one that's, one of the girls is like on top of another girl, and they're like all like looking like a insect or whatever. Right. But in some of the rehearsals in the documentaries, you saw, it shows how like these ballerinas are like on top of each other and they're like rehearsing. Yeah. How to do this. A lot of pre-production went into this.
Casey G. Smith: That's that kind of again, that all takes vision. You have to know where you're going before you have people start preparing for things. And Coppola really had, I mean, the actors, whether they were, you know, in minor roles or in major roles, he really worked in aspects of of rehearsal, which I'm talk about a little bit. Yeah. Um, he, he mentions how like, uh, specifically like when not, when Winona Ryder, how she can kind of just be put on, she's basically can be an automatic where she's, you know, grew up as a child star, right? She grew up doing this, and she has all the talent that you can just be on automatic. You don't, you know, you just hit your marks, you do your thing, hit your lines, and it's passable, you know, compared to like if it was a new actress or a new actor or whatever. If they may not be able to do that. They'd have to fully prepare, fully commit and everything like that. But, you know, her being like so talented and having all that experience, you can just kind of coast and get by. Uh-huh. And he said, you know, it's a good thing and it's a bad thing. The bad thing is like you may not be able to reach as deep, um, to get whatever vision it is. What, what are your thoughts on that?
Reginald Titus Jr.: Yeah, it was fascinating to hear him, to hear him say that, because when I've seen her performances, it feels like she's, you know, I've, you know, seen her get emotional and and draw in. But yeah, he said that because it's almost like you could almost know too much for your own good seeing so many things at an early age. Maybe, maybe it's tougher for you to feel challenged. I don't know what the case may be. But she, but she is the one that wanted to do this project. She actually brought it to Francis Ford Coppola. Uh, and I, I thought, I, I enjoyed her performance. So, uh, I think maybe, maybe, maybe doing the rehearsals like he does, maybe that was a something that kind of helped. But yeah, it's fascinating. I, I think, I think she could go as far as she wants to go. From her sheer just talent perspective. And she's kind of, you know, we're seeing, I think a bit of a comeback with what she's been doing on Stranger Things. Oh yeah, yeah. Her performances, her performance there were really awesome. So, yeah, we'll get to see what, what, what, what Winona, uh, has next. Maybe there'll be a, a rider saunas or something. I don't know.
Casey G. Smith: Right. So maybe it's just a thing that, you know, when you're dealing with, you know, experience, um, actors or people that have been doing this for a while, how to kind of get them to want it again, you know, let's go for that battle one more time, you know. Oh yeah. Let's put a little bit more into it. He mentions like, you know, picking how picking an, uh, composer is very important. And of course, he grew, his dad is a composer. Mm-hm. So, of course, he's gonna have more, he's gonna have more affinity towards that. His dad is a musician and composer?
Reginald Titus Jr.: Yes, his dad is a composer, so you can see why he, he would, uh, feel like a love for that a lot more and saying, this is very important, this is very important. So he like went on a big search to find this composer. And the thing that he realized that, you know, you know, actual composers that do this for a living, specifically, you know, he was looking for a Polish composer. For them to do things in a certain way, it takes them a very long time to to create some of the, some of these pieces. Whereas in the studio system, like, hey, we need some music now. Like, let's put some together real quick, you know, you write the music, we'll have some people play it, we're done. But, you know, for them, you know, it, it's a different perspective. And they take their time and he only gave him three pieces. Yep. And then you had to work with those three pieces throughout. And because they have the original recordings of them, they would use versions of them, they would strip out certain elements of the original recordings to get a different feel for those three different cues that they had to to work with. Which I thought was very interesting. It worked out. And it, and the music, it feels kind of like with, uh, when we listened to the last dragon, it's got its own vibe. And when you put it in, it's, the music is for that movie. It stands out, and it brings you into that world, which is unique. Yeah. The, the, the themes for, for the different characters. And, and again, how they, how they reiterate them and use them. Again, it does, it does feel like a to a, like a play. Um, maybe even like a musical. I, I, I could see this as a musical. I could see somebody taking this and making this into a, a pretty awesome musical. Uh, and it does, it is that theatrical. The costumes, the music, all of it. I think it would could really work.
Casey G. Smith: Again, we come across a situation. Actors not wanting to rehearse. Coppola being a theater director, you know, growing up in the theater. He came to realize later on that it may not be as important as he thought it was. Now he kind of looks at it as like, you're going out to pick pick up mushrooms out. You're picking mushrooms, and what you get is what you get. You're just gathering that. You know, you're just gathering it, what you got, what you got, and that's what you're gonna use to put this movie together. But he was like a stickler, you know, in particular on this film for wanting to rehearse. Some of the actors were not game to rehearse all the time. He talks about Jack Nicholson, I don't remember what movie that was, when he was kind of saying, well, we don't really have to do that. You know, it's not really necessary, is it? And I can kind of I can see both sides of it. If I'm dealing with people that are not experienced, I want as much rehearsal as possible. When it's an actor that's very experienced, you want to save their energy. You know, they might be jaded from the industry or whatever, they may not want to. Um, I think you just kind of got to play about who these people are. Specifically, when these are new actors, I would want to rehearse as much as possible. And some, some actors flip-flop. So some of them go and do stage plays, and other one, you know, they go from movies to stage plays. And for example, the movie, uh, American Beauty, sorry, you know, I gotta mention Kevin Spacey, but, uh, uh, at the time, you know, you know, he was, he was back and forth between doing stage plays and doing movies. And they all enjoyed the process of rehearsal. So you just gotta be able to class, uh, cast that's into that. That's true. And, and, you know, sometimes they could be given. Take somethings come with time and perspective because, you know, when you look at the, when you look at the end result of what Bram Stoker's Dracula became, it seems that the rehearsal was, was worthwhile. Now, could it have come out just as well with, without, maybe for some? Yeah, sure. Who, who knows. But when you, when you hear about like, uh, like, like Sir Anthony Hopkins, when, when Coppola is talking about Hopkins in the commentary, he was saying how, you know, it didn't seem like he really wanted to rehearse that much. But when you see some of the documentaries, and you hear Hopkins' comments, he kind of seemed like he was kind of, he thought it was interesting. Um, he didn't say that he didn't want to do it, but he, he said it was interesting. And one of the things that I, that I gathered from seeing some of the behind-the-scenes footage of the rehearsals and the, the different, um, workshops and, and, and warm-ups that they, that they would do, team-building exercise that they would do is that he, he made their parts very collaborative. They were able to add things to their characters and to the script. Coppola would go and have the script changed and bring it back, and so they got a chance to really kind of expand and flesh their characters out and, and rehearse that. So, um, even the little bit of kind of madness that Helsing, Van Helsing brings to the, to the role. I thought was, was fascinating and, and made sense. And him grabbing Mina and, and dancing with her when he first sees her. Um, I'm like, oh, okay. But it, you know, it kind of, it kind of works for the, for this particular film and what, what Coppola was going for. But, yeah, some things with time, season, trial, and error. He talks about how, um, how he coordinated like a love scene, um, with Mina and and Dracula, you know, coming back together. And Dracula's talking about, you know, he killed Lucy or whatever, you killed Lucy. You know, he's basically saying that he's of, he's dead. Um, but, uh, Coppola talks about how coordinating a scene like that is bringing in like a stunt coordinator to coordinate it like a knife fight, because you gotta get the cameras at certain angles and, you know, they could be actually blocking each other, depending on how they're doing the scene. So, you had to have somebody actually coordinate it. So it's like, it's not, it's not passionate at all. You know, when when you actually creating this scene. Well, he says, I think, something he'd like to do in, in future, with future love scenes, is to bring in fight choreographers. Oh, in the future. I misheard. Yeah, he, he'd like, he said if he were to shoot another one, he said I think it would make sense to do exactly that. Because, yeah, because it's just, it's like, I want to cut that part out. I think. Yeah, he talked about in the future, future, uh, love scenes, he'd like to, to bring in a fight choreographer. I think that would make sense to do that. Were these coordinated then? He they just did their thing. He did, they were directed. But yeah, there was no, there was no, there was no fight coordinator saying, use your elbow, you know, nothing, nothing like that. Gad, that. They were just, I guess, as awkward as he originally had had, had mentioned. But I'm like, when he said that, I thought, I got to thinking, I'm like, you know what, it sounds like, it sounds logical. It, it sounds logical to have a potentially a fight coordinator giving certain tips. But guess you have to practice that, you know, you'd have to practice to figure out. I didn't see that, but, uh, I assume that he, I thought he did bring that in, so I was like, oh, okay, seemed to work. But he didn't, it worked anyway. Yeah. Did we already talk about trusting Your actors to cast? Yeah. Uh-huh. All right, so he allowed Winona, you know, who brought him the script, basically. She brought him the script, and then also she had like a who's who of who she would like to act with. Mhm. So she was basically, like, in a way, like the casting director. Yeah. And he trusted her to do that. And, and, and I think that's a big deal, especially considering the genesis of their relationship, which we had, we had mentioned yet. Um, the fact that she was supposed to originally be in The Godfather III. Yeah. She was supposed to play the daughter of, of Michael Corleone, but grown up, but last minute, she got sick or ill and pulled out of the project. Hence, his, his daughter Sofia Coppola going into the role. But he didn't want to hold a grudge. And he said he likes to work with young people. And so when this opportunity came up, and, and Winona presented it to him, she did give him that list, and that's where you get like the, you know, the Sir Anthony Hopkins of, of the world. And I don't know if, if she specifically mentioned Gary Oldman, if he was on the, on the list for the, to be cast, or if the studio was already looking at him. She was good friends with Keanu Reeves, hence his casting as well. Carey Elwes also, she's from the Princess Bride and Robin Hood: Men in Tights. Uh, he's always, always enjoys his performances. But, but yeah, it, it, um, she, she should get some credit. Either, I don't know, I think as a producer or or casting, but, uh, I haven't seen any additional credits for her, uh, in the, in the film. Associate producer or something. So, give her that. So, I checked, it'd be fine. Thank you. I'll just take the money. There was a part where he actually kind of got into it with one of the actors, uh, Coleman. It was the whole rat suit thing, right? The rat suit fight. Because while this love scene is going on, like it jumps to this rat, jumps to a rat suit. And maybe that's the thing that's like kind of like trip me out about the whole thing because he's jumping from being a wolf to a rat to a vampire. It's like, why do you even have, like, I don't get it. But, uh, he, he mentioned like the more experienced an actor is, maybe you have to seduce them more to that to perform. I don't know. I don't know why, why that is. He said, maybe it could be laziness, could be, it could be a number of things, but it seems like you have to like kind of convince them more to do that. And because I think he, Coleman, his thing was like, why do I have to get on the bed and and do this thing, you know, being this rat. Why do I have to do this? I don't know. But yeah, multiple like back and forth. They, you know, Gary said that he's a very outspoken person. And at times, he says, at times, I want to win. You know, I, I realize, you know, you're working with the director, and they're pushing for their vision and what they want to accomplish. And they're telling you what they want. He said, but sometimes, I want to win. And I don't want to get, I want to get my way. Sometimes. And I'll, and I'll push back to, towards and for that. They both have the same goal. They want to make a great film and get great performances. But, um, but yeah, and, and they, they would, they would go back and forth. You could clearly see that in the scene with the, like, the steps, and it's like, if I could just start here. Could just give me the cue. And Coppola, like, no, the words are the cue. Right. I just, going back and forth, and it's, it's, it's interesting to see, but he likes that. He likes kind of the, the pushback a little bit. And then when they were doing that rat suit scene, there was a part came where Francis just stopped, like, and had all the actors line up. And just let, he said, just, you know, put, we covered their eyes, and and he let just Gary Oldman go in between each of them and just say scary stuff, just to put fear into them. And he's like, oh, he shouldn't have done that. He was like, that's like giving, you know, that's like putting the kid in the candy store. And he, he enjoyed being able to do that. So, you know, Coppola fights for his vision. I'll give him that. He fights for his vision every, every step of the way. And is willing to, to disagree and, um, but he doesn't seem like he's mean-spirited about it. I don't, I don't see him doing it out of like, just hubris. I don't know. But yeah, not, not afraid to disagree, because he mentioned several, several of them that he had while making this production.

Final Takeaways
Reginald Titus Jr.: He also gave a shout-out to Tom Cruise, you know, basically just kind of saying, like, out of all the people, he's the one that's like, whatever you want to do, he'll do it. That says a lot about Tom Cruise and his reputation, you know. And you go back to all his films, you see him doing his stunts, you see him running. Always. Always running, Tom. Type that in YouTube, see what you find. Um, and, you know, dealing with people like Stanley Kubrick, who are like super OCD people, you know, doing 70 takes, 60 takes and just powering through that kind of stuff. That makes sense why Tom Cruise has the career that he has. Through the ups and downs. And doing it as if this is your last movie. Yeah. You know, we talk about the movie, Tomorrow Never Dies, I think that's the name of the movie, or Tomorrow Never Dies. Maybe Tomorrow Will Come. No, it's, uh, Edge of Tomorrow. Edge of Tomorrow. Edge of Tomorrow, Live, Die, Repeat. All You Need Is Kill. Like this, the film literally has multiple names.
Casey G. Smith: You, you watch that film, and you just see Tom Cruise is giving it all to you. He'll risk his life for the audience. And how appropriate in a movie where he has to relieve the same day again, again and again and again. Yeah, how appropriate. That's called irony.
Reginald Titus Jr.: That's a perfect example of what Tom Cruise is about. That film right there. Giving it all. He'll, if he died on, you know, in the film, yes, that's how he would want to go out, it seems like. You know what, I, I wouldn't doubt that that's how he wants to go out. In, in, in the film going for it. Just going for it.
Casey G. Smith: Coppola talks about how why approach a film if you don't have anything unique to say, that you want to talk about that a little bit further. Definitely. Especially when it comes to relation, in relation to all the Dracula films that are out there. So many Dracula films. And how Dracula is, is kind of tied into cinema. Like when the first, I don't know, one of the first films that would come out with Nosferatu. Um, that's tied into like the birth of silent films and cinema. And so there's this correlation that's, that's there. And so many films have been done. And so, yeah, how, how are you say something new? And so to take this book, that again, ties into the lore, ties into the historic aspects and fusing it together, then now you do it with a love story there. He really felt he had something new and unique to say. And when, when watching this film all these years later, I'm like, yeah, this is so different from other other Dracula films that I've, that I've seen. Actually, when he dies at the end, I, I feel for him. I'm like, oh, you know, kind of happy he has this release, but he has that moment of, of, of not being a total monster, just enough. You to feel something for him. Um, and just in terms of, one thing I wanted to mention that this, watching the film, Reginald, it reminded me of, uh, when I, when I watched the show Penny Dreadful. Um, you know, it's set in the Victorian times, it's period piece. But watching that show and the ensemble cast that's gathered, very much so, it reminded me of the ensemble that was gathered when they're going to go and hunt Dracula. Like, because there's one American guy in Penny Dreadful who's kind of the Western guy and and there's a doctor amongst them and yeah, and, yeah, I don't know why, but this show, this show reminds me, I don't know, something about it gave me a Penny Dreadful feel to it. Like maybe there's some influence from the Coppola people who are going after these different, um, monsters and maybe some of them themselves maybe, maybe monsters. But, but yeah, I got that, I got that vibe from, from watching it.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Whoa. Francis Coppola, he talks about, he expresses how he wasn't happy making this film.
Casey G. Smith: Mhm.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Over and over. And he's basically saying that he freed himself from the world of cinema and he only does it as a hobby now. He did something he swore that he would never do, which was make, you know, Godfather III. But he did it after becoming bankrupt from the adventure of a movie called One from the Heart in 1981. That I've never seen. I'd never heard of. And I guess, you know, going bankrupt, maybe, you know, he put his money into it and just, hey, it didn't do it what it was supposed to do, so he was done. And so, you kind of get trapped where you have to do these movies, you know, for your salary. You make your salary and then, you know, hopefully you can put it to the side. But he talks about how he was able to invest, you know, invest in the wine, food, and resort business. Yeah, he did. Finally became financially solvent, so now, now he's like kind of stress less.
Casey G. Smith: Yeah, he seemed like he got, kind of got a happy ending for himself. In, in, and can truly do things on his terms.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Because you, you hear about people that are trapped in certain industries where they have to do the next project. And you see, you see a lot of times with some of these actors where they overexposed themselves because they have to make the money. You know, so they, they're doing more projects than they should be doing and kind of really saturating the market with their face, and so they devalue how much they get per project. So, and it's like a weird cycle.
Casey G. Smith: Yeah, it is like you want, you get to this point where you want to make it. You make it, you upgrade your lifestyle. To maintain that lifestyle, especially if you're with the cost of living in California, well, you got to continue to, to make it and be relevant. And be and but still have the audiences want to see you. Still have the studios and directors and producers want to work with you. So it's a, it's just very interesting fine line. You know, if you have one to two films coming out a year, okay, you know, maybe that's a good pace or maybe it's one to two every other year. Um, I guess depending on the level of, of success or, or if you're doing a show. I, I find it fascinating now that there used to seem to be this chasm between television and movies. That chasm seems to be rapidly disappearing. True. Before if you were a, if you were a TV actor, Yeah. you were a TV actor. And if you were a movie actor, you were a movie actor. Now that's, that's not the, that's not really the case at all. Like it's not really a big deal. I, I, I think that we really, I've noticed a transition from the H from HBO shows, to the AMC shows and some of the Showtime shows. People who have, who have made that transition. Actors who have gone and done shows from, from mainly in the movies, like, like a Don Cheadle doing a, you know, uh, uh, House of Lies. Uh, um, you know, you got, you know, your Christian Bales also does House of Lies, started off, you know, in television, but has done her share of, of, of movies also. No big deal. You know, the Mila Kunises of the world. The, yeah, the Bryan Cranstons from Breaking Bad to, you know, multiple films that he's been in, Troped in. Uh, John Hamm. And John Hamm is everywhere. John Hamm that dude is, is just working from Mad Men to, that was Edgar Wright's film with the Baby Driver. Oh, Baby Driver. Yeah. Baby Driver, uh, just all kinds of, all kinds of roles. John Ham is everywhere. Doing he's doing voiceover for commercials for I think that's the best thing right there. Learning how to learn different skill sets so you can just, you can flip around, you know, do the voiceover, uh, learn to produce films, learn to develop, you know, project that you may not necessarily be the one shooting or acting in front of, but you're developing them as a producer, and it can do its thing. You're having other people, you know, et cetera. And, you know, you have a an product, but you don't have to be like involved with it every single day. Yeah. And I know, uh, Coppola, if you look on his IMDB, he has a lot of projects that he just produces, that he may not necessarily direct or write, but he produces them.
Reginald Titus Jr.: That makes sense, man. Diversify yourself.
Casey G. Smith: Yes, because and directing is one of those things too, that it takes a lot of energy, a lot of time, a lot of devotion that, um, sometimes you just want to go stay asleep that day, or you just don't want to think about a movie the whole year and be involved with it every single part of the process. It just takes a lot of energy from you. And, uh, I know Tarantino talks about that there's a lifespan for directors. But, you know, we've seen people like Ridley Scott or, was it Michael Schultz from Last Dragon where they've figured out how to keep this thing going. But I, uh, I think Schultz, his thing is, you know, he does a lot of TV now, he directs a lot of TV, and then Ridley Scott, he actually produces a lot of stuff. So it's also, uh, a venture for him. Yeah. So you just gotta find your way to make, to make sure you're happy in life, I guess. Ain't nothing wrong with getting paid along the way. Ain't nothing wrong with that. At all. Well, that concludes our show today. Next week we're going to be watching Mother, right?
Reginald Titus Jr.: By Darren Aronofsky.
Casey G. Smith: All right. Thank y'all for tuning in. Don't forget to check us out on iTunes, Filmmaker Commentary. Um, leave us a note on facebook.com/film maker Commentary. Also, we're on Stitcher, SoundCloud. So, if you also have, uh, a film you would like us to look at, make sure it has commentary and put your suggestions either on Facebook or SoundCloud. And we'll be following up with you. Until next time. Peace.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Peace.