FMC 015: Zodiac Directed by David Fincher

Full Episode Transcript
This episode of Filmmaker Commentary features Reginald Titus Jr. and Casey G. Smith discussing David Fincher's 2007 film *Zodiac*, exploring its detailed filmmaking techniques, visual effects, and how it draws inspiration from a real-life unsolved mystery.

Introduction and Initial Impressions of Zodiac
Reginald Titus Jr.: Filmmaker Commentary episode 15. Welcome to Filmmaker Commentary, where we give you insights from our favorite filmmaking commentaries. These commentaries can be heard on your DVD and Blu-rays of your favorite movies. We'll show you how you can use these commentaries and apply them to improve your video production and filmmaking techniques. All this here on Filmmaker Commentary. I'm your host, Reginald Titus Jr.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Alright, welcome to another episode of Filmmaker Commentary. I'm Reginald Titus Jr. I'm here with...
Casey G. Smith: Casey G. Smith.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Welcome back.
Casey G. Smith: Yes sir.
Reginald Titus Jr.: So today we're going to be talking about *Zodiac* by David Fincher. Now, this movie was released March 2nd, 2007. It's a runtime of 2 hours and 36 minutes. The director's cut is 2 hours and 42 minutes, with a budget of 65 million. The box office, it made 33 million domestically and 51 million foreign, which is a total of 84.5 million worldwide.
Reginald Titus Jr.: We're here to help you as filmmakers become better producers, filmmakers, writers by listening to these special features and the commentaries on these Blu-rays and DVDs. And we're here to help you with that process and trying to take out some of the little nuggets from the these special features and pass those on.
Casey G. Smith: Get your pen and paper ready, or however you take notes, and see what you can gleam off of these things.
Casey G. Smith: And spoiler alerts.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Absolutely. Spoiler alerts.
Casey G. Smith: We go all in.
Reginald Titus Jr.: So, David Fincher, he's one of our more prolific directors of our generation. He created this masterpiece, this masterwork, I don't know if it's a masterpiece, but I'll definitely say a masterwork, *Zodiac*. When this movie came out, I didn't watch it. I wasn't even motivated to see it when the trailer came out. This was back in 2007. What about you? Did you, was this even on your radar when this came out?
Casey G. Smith.: It was not on my radar. In '07, no, it wasn't on my radar. I think I may have seen the posters for it, but I wasn't too... I didn't, I didn't know who Mark Ruffalo was back then. Didn't really know who Jake Gyllenhaal was then, or, I mean, I'd heard of RDJ, but yeah, this wasn't on my radar at all.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Even like currently, you know, and I'm a, I'm a fan of David Fincher's work. But this is one that just, I never was motivated to watch it, you know.
Casey G. Smith: So what got you to watch it?
Reginald Titus Jr.: You mentioned it the other week.
Casey G. Smith: Oh, there we go.
Reginald Titus Jr.: But you know, it was one of those things like on the checklist like, okay, I've seen everything else of David Fincher. Let me go ahead and check this box off because I've seen everything else. One of my top films of all time is *Fight Club*. So...
Casey G. Smith: Which you, you turned me on to finally watch. I, I'd gone years without watching it, and then you finally let me, let me borrow it, and I was like, oh, I see.
Reginald Titus Jr.: And that one and even *Fight Club*, you know, a lot of his films run longer, kind of like Spike Lee, you know, they tend to run a little bit longer. But, um, you're, you will endure it because you're just so engaged with the movie. But, for whatever, we'll get into it a little bit later, but for whatever reason, just this movie seemed a little bit longer.
Casey G. Smith: Yes. Yes, it, it did. It felt long. How about that? It is long and it felt long.
Reginald Titus Jr.: It felt long.
Casey G. Smith: It felt long. Yeah, there's, there's a difference and this, this does both. It does both. Especially, I'll be honest, this is my second time watching it. I watched it a couple years back. And when I, the first time I watched it, it mean it was, it was long, but it didn't feel long. Right. Um, because I had a, a vested interest, again, like I mentioned before, I'd seen *Dirty Harry* before. And so I was, I was really interested in, watching it, I was like, oh wow, that was, that was pretty good. But watching it the second time, yeah, you feel it a little bit. Or a lot. You feel it.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Based on the box office numbers, I wonder, I don't wonder why American, why the audiences didn't support the film at the time. I don't know, I have a theory that Americans don't like movies about reading. It's a newspaper movie.
Casey G. Smith: Well, see, I... so with that, I, I'd be very curious then to see box office for, um, films like *All the President's Men*, um, or, uh, some of the newer films that are out during the time of this recording like *The Post* that came out this year.
Reginald Titus Jr.: *The Post*, I actually looked it up because it came to my brain. So *The Post* came out. Got Meryl Streep, of course, and Tom Hanks, can't go, you should not go wrong with that collabo. And it was profitable in America. And even, but it made more money foreign.
Casey G. Smith: Hmm.
Reginald Titus Jr.: And I don't know. What about the other one that Ruffalo was in, uh, *Spotlight*?
Casey G. Smith: What about the other one that Ruffalo was in, uh, *Spotlight*?
Reginald Titus Jr.: Mark Ruffalo, Michael Keaton, where it's uh, part of the, uh, what newspaper was that? It came out a couple years ago. It was, it was the newspaper in Boston, uh, that exposed the, the, the, the cover-up in the Catholic Church with the, with the priest, uh, and the abuse.
Reginald Titus Jr.: It's not even on my radar. You didn't, you haven't seen *Spotlight* yet?
Casey G. Smith: Uh, uh, I didn't.
Reginald Titus Jr.: That one, quite, quite a few awards, uh, that season. It was the, it was the same year that, uh, *Revenant* came out.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Okay. Okay.
Casey G. Smith: That was a good year, man, that was a good year. I think *Sicario* came out that year.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Oh, that's some good stuff.
Casey G. Smith: But yeah, yeah, *Spotlight* yeah, *Spotlight* is, uh, that, that's a good one, man.
Reginald Titus Jr.: I've been listening to a lot of Jason Blumhouse. When you're making these awards, you're not necessarily making money.
Casey G. Smith: Yeah. I, I have to, I have to agree.
Reginald Titus Jr.: A lot of money is pushed and put into the P&A just to qualify.
Casey G. Smith: Sure.
Reginald Titus Jr.: And so, you know, it's, it's a wash, but it's, it's more of the thing is like for the notoriety type thing.
Casey G. Smith: Absolutely. I mean, there's plenty of, I mean, a lot of films. And sometimes it's after the award season that people say, oh, I maybe should go and, and, and check that out. Unless you're, you know, really kind of a cinephile, um, the, the general public, you know, had never heard of, you know, maybe *The Shape of Water* or, um, you know, *Call Me By Your Name* or, you know, these different films that, that are winning say best picture or *Birdman*, you know, again, if you're tuned in, you're checking it out, but the masses, you know, for the most part, um, yeah, aren't really aware or really putting in that much money.
Reginald Titus Jr.: It might be a thing, you know, maybe we can check out, you know, for the next time, maybe check out one of these Oscar-nominated movies for this year.
Casey G. Smith: Alright, that, that sounds like a plan.
Reginald Titus Jr.: So yeah, so that's my theory on it, but, um, so, so you watched the movie before. Did you watch the movie again or did you just go right into the commentary this time around?
Casey G. Smith: I did watch the film again. Again, it had, it had been a while. Um, I probably could have just, uh, you know what? I, I, I did watch the film again and I'm glad I did. There were some things that I, that I, I saw from the first time that I don't know, it stood out to me more, but it was good to watch it again. It, it's a, it's a, it's a good story. It's, it's well-crafted, it's well-shot. Uh, and then going back and listening to the commentary, yeah, that was worthwhile. And catching just a little bit of some of the special features.
Casey G. Smith: How about you?
Reginald Titus Jr.: This time, I watched it, you know, I tried to watch it the first two times.
Casey G. Smith: First two times?
Reginald Titus Jr.: And I fell asleep. This is work to watch this. Let me tell y'all, this is work because this movie is about three hours, right? And to watch the movie, that's three hours, and then to sit through a commentary. And it's difficult to sit through a three hour, two and a half hour commentary, you know, you have to do something else or to kind of pass the time. It's, it's a job.
Casey G. Smith: Yeah, I had some projects I was working on as I sit in front of the TV and I was like, doing some painting and I was like, okay. That's worth writing down. Let me jot that down on my phone. Okay.
Reginald Titus Jr.: And it's a different experience. Like watching *Scott Pilgrim* and going through, you know, the commentary there and watching that, that was like, it was more of a treat, you know, it's, it was very enjoyable. Uh, this...
Casey G. Smith: We put in work, ladies and gentlemen, for this one. We put in work for you. We're here for the people.
Reginald Titus Jr.: That's right.
Casey G. Smith: Take one for the team.
Reginald Titus Jr.: So I kept falling asleep in the same spot. Like it was about an hour and 45 minutes where Robert Downey's character, he's no longer working at the Chronicle and it's another guy that comes in.
Casey G. Smith: Right.
Reginald Titus Jr.: And for whatever reason, that's the time, like I'm like, the movie's still going, it's like an hour and 45 minutes at that time. I was like, the movie should be done.
Casey G. Smith: That's after the murders have stopped. And is that, is that when they start pursuing, um...
Reginald Titus Jr.: Right. It's like the, yeah, it's like the second half of the movie or whatever.
Casey G. Smith: Mm, yeah, there is that, that shift where kind of the case is beginning to almost dry up. But maybe before Gyllenhaal's character really begins to become obsessed with it on his, on his end.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
Casey G. Smith: And then there's this part in the movie where it's just like this blank spot. And I thought something was wrong with the DVD.
Reginald Titus Jr.: And then there's this part in the movie where it's just like this blank spot. And I thought something was wrong with the DVD. It's like blank, like music's playing, but it, it just fades to black and then it's like it says four years later or whatever. I'm like, what's going on?
Casey G. Smith: Mm-hm. This movie's not ending.
Reginald Titus Jr.: So, um, yeah, so, so eventually, I, I was probably just watching it at the wrong time. I was watching it late at night thinking I can like power through it, like I did some of the other films. But this takes, you know, I had to have energy. So earlier today I went on and watched watched it earlier. And then, um, finished up the commentary.
Casey G. Smith: Then you did commentary. Woof.
Reginald Titus Jr.: So I started, um, so about hour and a half in is where I know for sure about hour and 45 minutes. So I just finished up the movie from that point on, knocked it out and didn't watch the commentary. And while the commentary was going, I was doing other things with our film and stuff like that. So, yes. But, I would say this film is perfect for filmmakers because David Fincher is OCD. I'm a fan of his work. He's super OCD in everything that he does. So from the, the menu inside, you know, when you put your Blu-rays or DVDs in, the menu is always going to be crafted in the style of the key art and the theme of whatever that theme is, it's going to be playing throughout the key art. Even the DVD covers, the Blu-ray covers, um, like *Fight Club*, the cover was soap, like the actual packaging of the soap, like the DVD had the actual packaging of like the soap maker facility. Um, *Girl with a Dragon Tattoo*, um, *Gone Girl*, like has that same OCD feeling. Like he's putting extra work into everything that he does.

David Fincher's Craft and Visuals
Casey G. Smith: There is a consistency, you know, throughout it all. The, the brand, it's, it's, it's a branding. Even with, um, when you let me borrow *Seven*, that also, I remember it's the packaging to that, to that DVD at the time I was like, wow. It stands out. And even with this, you know, when I went to watch this again, I went to, to, I initially was going to just rent the DVD. And I went to a local store and realized the DVD didn't have the commentary on it. So then I found the, um, I, I looked up online and found the Blu-ray and then saw the cover of the Blu-ray and the that does have the commentary, and the cover of the Blu-ray actually is, looks like the packaging to a letter. And it's even addressed to the, uh, San Francisco Chronicle. It says the SF Chronicle, San Francisco, California. Please rush to editor. And it's basically the same letter that's sent to them at the beginning of the film. Same look, same feel, same handwriting. And even as you turn it around on the back, it looks like, like it's, you know, old, uh, envelope paper as they list the, the features on it. And it's in a landscape, uh, instead of being portrait. So it's just really sticking with the brand of, uh, of the film. And all the more even emphasizing the importance of the letters in the film as well.
Reginald Titus Jr.: One thing that David Fincher, he does well is he provides special features. Now, he's not like a super outgoing filmmaker. He's not super excited like a Eli Roth or Kevin Smith. He's not going to entertain you in that way. He's very technical, straightforward, and he's going to give you the goods. And where he does that, it's like in his special features. So of course he'll do his commentary. There's also a commentary here with, uh, Jake Gyllenhaal and Robert Gyllenhaal.
Casey G. Smith: Gyllenhaal. Oh, yeah.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Oh, yeah. I always mess up his name, don't know why. Robert Downey, uh, who was it? Brad Fisher, James Vanderbilt, and James Elroy. And also on, there's another disc, and there's a documentary, it's called *Zodiac Deciphered*. Then there's the visual effects breakdown, which is like the pre-visualization, cuz um, David Fincher, he's real good with like the animatics. He is very, very, very OCD when it comes to these things. And there's some other documentaries on here. There's one called *This is the Zodiac Speaking* and there's another one, *His Name Was Arthur Leigh Allen*.
Casey G. Smith: It's a packed out Blu-ray/DVD combo. It's one of those other ones, again, like Reginald was saying, if you are into commentaries, special features, honestly, I can, at, at this point, everyone that I've seen with David Fincher is worth picking up. Uh, *Girl with the Dragon Tattoo*...
Reginald Titus Jr.: Oh yeah. Oh man.
Casey G. Smith: I think I have the DVD art.
Reginald Titus Jr.: That was like three or four DVDs or something like that.
Casey G. Smith: Yeah, it is, wow. And yeah, his, his background in visual effects comes through. Before we started recording, I, I was actually playing the visual effects piece and just beginning to kind of dive into it. And just from what I saw, I mean, there are scenes in this film, and we'll get into this, but there are scenes in this film that you would not even know have been replaced with visual effects. It's quite stunning and impressive.
Reginald Titus Jr.: I think that's part of the reason why, David Fincher, you know, even with his background at ILM and all that, he, he tends to go, I think his budget goes over when the, than where they need to be because of these special effects. Um, I think he could probably bring his budget down if he would do more things practically and do less takes and just do it practically. But, you know, hey, he has, he's David Fincher so they're going to give him more leeway, but I think he...
Casey G. Smith: He's, he's kind of earned that right, would you say?
Reginald Titus Jr.: He's, he's earned that right and that's how you get the David Fincher look. That's the only reason, that's why his stuff looks so perfect, crafted is because of these digital effects that he's, that he does.
Casey G. Smith: Do you think that since him going digital, though he says there's a place for film, do you think that him going digital also, um, it fell his freedom up to do even more takes?
Reginald Titus Jr.: Yes, most definitely. It's freed him up to do more takes, but it's given him so like, like this Blu-ray is in 1920 by 1080. But when he's shooting 4K, that gives him more space to compose with. So he can rotate and compose his shot. So if it's like shaking a little bit, he can use tracking to stabilize the shot or to crop it in a little bit more. So he uses that for, for digital effects.
Casey G. Smith: Right.
Reginald Titus Jr.: So yeah, the, the digital has definitely helped him out. Of course, it's allowed him to do more takes. I don't know if that's a good thing. There's an argument with filmmakers on that because when you're shooting film and you don't want to waste a whole lot of film, you're, you're doing more rehearsals, you're making sure that you have what you need and you get it in camera. You make sure those performances are on point. And when you're rolling, hey, that's money going through.
Casey G. Smith: Right. It keeps you efficient, sufficient, precise, uh, as well. I mean, they say the same thing if you're a photographer, that it's about getting it right in the camera first.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Yeah, I was just curious about that because yeah, when listening to this commentary, when you hear him talk about how many takes he took, and at times saying, oh, you know, Jake wasn't really happy about that, having to do this one 66 times or, you know, uh, yeah, we had, you know, Robert do this one and it was, you know, we did about 20 takes on this one where he's just picking up the coffee mug. And, um, we had to, yeah, do it a couple more times. I'm sitting there, I'm like, what? How many takes for what? And then you might see the, the cut and they may have just cut away from that. And like, dude...
Reginald Titus Jr.: There, I don't know. I would argue that he's wasting time.
Casey G. Smith: Man, I can only imagine.
Reginald Titus Jr.: But you know, it's David Fincher, who am I, right? So, hey.
Casey G. Smith: Yeah. Yeah. He got a point. Right. We, we praise the, the finished results, but man, it's, it's like when you, when you hear how the sausage is made, you're like, whoa, that's, uh...

Behind-the-Scenes and Filmmaking Challenges
Reginald Titus Jr.: And then as an audience member watching this film, you know, I'm not trashing the film or anything, but I just, I really wasn't entertained that much. And it felt like a, a documentary, like a reenactment. Like kind of like a, um, what's the, uh, dramatized mysteries, yeah.
Casey G. Smith: Dramatization, yeah.
Reginald Titus Jr.: That's what it is. Yeah. That's what it felt like. It, it just kind of like more of a heightened dramatization.
Casey G. Smith: I find that fascinating because again, I mentioned before that I came to *Zodiac* after I'd seen the *Dirty Harry* movies. And I just went to a, I went through a stint where I was trying to kind of fill in some of my gaps from a, a film standpoint. I was like, you know what? I've always heard about Clint Eastwood doing, you know, *Dirty Harry* and, um, *What the Dead Pool*, and, you know, he's got, there's like three of them that are kind of in the *Dirty Harry* trilogy. I forget what, I forget what they call the trilogy, but anyway, you know, come to find out, you know, in *Dirty Harry*, there's a killer on the loose. And it's all set in San Francisco, uh, called the Scorpio Killer. And, you know, I watched the film and it was, and it was, it was, it was fascinating. I was like, wow, this was, I, I enjoyed it more than I thought I would. Then come to find out, I started hearing about this movie *Zodiac*, you know, that had come out. And then come to find out, it had, that *Dirty Harry* is actually based on *Zodiac*. And that the character that Mark Ruffalo plays in this film is, is who *Dirty Harry* is based off of. And when you see, when you see *Dirty Harry* and you see Ruffalo's character, I don't see the correlation. Yeah, I'm like, I don't, that's dramatization, but, uh, but then when you see, okay, oh, okay, Scorpio Killer versus, you know, Zodiac Killer, I'm like, ah, so for me, I, I, I went in wanting to see, okay, what's, what's closer to the real story? So I, I had a, I guess a different vested interest going in because I'd, I'd seen the, the *Dirty Harry* film.
Reginald Titus Jr.: They couldn't be more different.
Reginald Titus Jr.: And I think this film, it's, I don't know, I, I can't even really explain. Maybe it's one of those things that he felt it was his duty to create. Maybe not necessarily for entertainment, just because, you know, he talks about being a kid in San Francisco and, you know, having that feeling of, whatever happened to the Zodiac Killer or like that kind of just being in an atmosphere and an environment and kind of being at these places while all this stuff was going down. So...
Casey G. Smith: I noticed that in the commentary. I, I made a note about that, how when even when it opens up, you, when you hear him talk about San Francisco, he's very nostalgic about San Francisco and what was going on at the time. So this, this story is, is kind of closer to him and for him, maybe than, than others. And even the, the, the writer of the script and one of the producers, when they were thinking about who to get to, to make it, they thought that Fincher was perfect because, I mean, he had already obviously done *Seven*, uh, and had done something dealing with a psychopath and a murderer. And he was from the area. And his, his, you know, his, his meticulousness, they thought he was perfect one to, to direct this, this film.
Reginald Titus Jr.: And this film might be more perfect than I'm giving it credit. It's, um, it feels frustrating because in the characters, you're just like, you're right along with them. Like you're discovering this, these things with them. So it's frustrating and there's no closure. You know, you want, you, you're like rooting these guys on, but nobody gets any closure. The only, you know, the film ends and, you know, it opens and, and, it basically say, and later on, there was never, you know, they kind of tell you what's happening, but it still, they were never, never found this guy.
Casey G. Smith: And that's one of those things, when it's based off of a real story and that's what kind of makes it fascinating for some people. They like this kind of stuff. They like, it's not a conspiracy, but it is a, excuse me.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Unsolved mystery.
Casey G. Smith: Yeah, it is a mystery in, in the true sense, it is a mystery. And then when they, when they came back around, they thought they had the guy and then the guy dies. You're like, what the hell? You know? But that's, that's real life, you know, everything doesn't wrap up with a, with a bow. Um, not everybody gets awarded medals and, and have, you know, have parades for solving the crime. And it doesn't always happen nice and neat. But even with that in mind, some of the scenes in these films, and in, scenes in this film were done in a way that they, you know, they had to take creative liberties, which I know we're going to, we're going to, uh, touch on, but yeah, this, watching this a second time through, it was, it was tough. I feel that now that I've seen it twice, I probably don't, I, I don't need to revisit this one for, for a while. I actually, I actually would rather...
Reginald Titus Jr.: Oh, just one time. Yeah.
Casey G. Smith: Yeah. One time in a lifetime.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Just watch it all the way through, you're good.
Casey G. Smith: You'd be good for, for, for a decade or so. I, I would like to now revisit *Dirty Harry*. And I, I would recommend if you haven't seen *Dirty Harry*, I, I'd recommend checking that out.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Okay. Yeah. My favorite shot in the film. I like, I definitely like the opening shot. And there's an opening shot where the camera's inside the car and it's kind of showing the visualization of the neighborhood. And it's tracking, you get to see house to house and you see everybody playing outside, you know, it's fireworks going on in the background. It's just a grand old time. And, uh, it's, the car stops at a house and then the first character walks and, uh, walks to the camera, walks to the, uh, car. I like that. I, to myself, I'm like, as a filmmaker, I'm like, how did they achieve that shot? And, and I try to, and you as a filmmaker, producer out there, do that test on yourselves and say, how would you shoot this shot?
Casey G. Smith: Right. You know, how would you reenact that?
Reginald Titus Jr.: I say, okay, if we shoot inside. Me knowing David Fincher work, I would assume that he tracked it regular, practically, he tracked it practically, and then put a digital hood over.
Casey G. Smith: Over the roof. So people with, with no top on it. Right.
Reginald Titus Jr.: That's what, that's how I think. And then he would have digitally did that. Um, that's what I assume, but it turns out that he actually, they were in the car, an actual car, but instead of driving the car, they were pushing the car down the track. I think that's how they did it. They tracked it. Um, yeah, they actually just pushed the car like, like in neutral. And track the shot that way, um, because it was giving too much vibration.
Casey G. Smith: Oh, that makes sense. That would make sense.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Um, and then I like how we open with a character, and then at the end of the movie, we finish the movie with that same character.
Casey G. Smith: Years, years later, is that the one that he had the airport? Right.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Mm-hm. You know, he's wounded and David Fincher, he does that in some of his movies. If you've seen *Gone Girl*, we open up with, uh, Ben Affleck and the actress, I can't think of her, the actress, I can't think of her name.
Casey G. Smith: Rose, uh, Rose...
Reginald Titus Jr.: The crazy one. But, uh...
Casey G. Smith: That's not Rose McGowan. Oh, no, no, no. Anyway, go ahead.
Reginald Titus Jr.: So when *Gone Girl* opens up, it's, you know, it's Ben Affleck, it's, it's with his wife and she looks up at him and you look at her like, oh, they're just having, you know, it's a good time, it's smooshing time. Then the, the movie happens and then we go back to that same shot and she looks back up at Ben Affleck, but now we've already experienced what we experienced, so it's like, oh, this is, we know who this person is. This girl's crazy. You know, you feel differently about the character. Same shot and everything.
Casey G. Smith: Rosamund Pike. Sorry, I had, I had to.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Oh yeah, for sure. What's her name again?
Casey G. Smith: Rosamund Pike.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Breakout performance in that one. She did. But yeah, I like the way that he opens up with a character and closes out with a character. This character, of course, you know, he's like this, you know, young guy that's just kind of hanging out, want to get lucky for the night, and then years later, you know, he's like this broken guy that, you know, he's been shot at, you know, survived this attack and still has no closure.
Casey G. Smith: You know, and it's fascinating because there's even, uh, on the Blu-ray, there's two documentaries. One is on based on the film, and the one that's based upon like real life, where they're actually interviewing, um, some of the cops who were there at the, at that first scene. Actually at multiple scenes, but they, they interviewed some of the cops at the first scene. Actually the, uh, I think I want to say Inspector William, is it William Armstrong? Played by Anthony Edwards. I think he's, he's interviewed, but then the actual guy who, who was shot, he's there and they interview him and he's kind of, give you a recap of the night of what he believed happened. And, yeah, he sounds, clearly he's got some things that happened to him because, because of getting, of getting shot. even the way he talks, cuz the bullet went through back of his ear, through his tongue, and then out. And then it hit the girl. And he, he, he believes that's the bullet that killed her, but he was shot like five or six times.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Yeah, man, that's horrible.
Casey G. Smith: Man, you know, multiple, multiple times. But, um, yeah. Yeah, it's.
Reginald Titus Jr.: So the actual commentary, like I said earlier, David Fincher is not, in this one, I'm, I'm pretty sure he, they probably recorded this commentary way after the fact. I don't know if they recorded it, the commentary like while it was in the theaters or whatever, cuz sometimes people revisit commentary so they can sell more Blu-rays or DVDs or whatever. So he seems a little bit more dry and whatever. Uh, so he's not necessarily that exciting guy, but he, you know, he will give you, sometimes he will give you the goods, but on this one, I think he talks more about like his feelings towards the story and his feeling about the casting process and just kind of revisiting, having a good time, you know, hanging out with the actors and things like that.
Casey G. Smith: So what more would you have wanted out of this commentary?
Reginald Titus Jr.: This commentary, I would want more of a technical, uh, commentary.
Casey G. Smith: Really? I, I, so in my experience with it, listening to it, I, I felt that he was, he was throwing out quite a few technical things as far as, I mean, mentioning when they, when they use blue screen on a lot of the shots where they, where they are driving, uh, to, I mean, again, mentioning how they set up different, different shots and composites. Um, I, I guess that's what I got out of them, but you're also, you know, more on the technical bent than I am. So I, I could, I could see what if you said you wanted more then, um, okay.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Because, um, I listen to his commentary on, uh, *Panic Room*, which I do recommend, that's an awesome, full of special features. I still need to see that. Oh man. Yes, I would revisit that. I've seen it several times, I wouldn't mind watching it again. And the commentary on that one as well, super technical and he's, he's just giving you goods. You can tell when he's into it and when he's not.
Casey G. Smith: Okay.
Reginald Titus Jr.: And that's why I kind of questioned when did, when did they record this commentary. Also, he, you know, he kind of, he talks about, uh, Mark Ruffalo's performance in the movie *Collateral*. I don't know if he's kind of taking shots at Michael Mann, uh, in, in *Collateral*, that movie was also shot digitally as well. Uh, but he talks about Mark Ruffalo's performance kind of being, uh, hampered and he felt like he can kind of show Ruffalo, uh, like more for who he is, more of a, uh, human. And so I was like, what is he, is he taking shots at a fellow director? I don't know.
Casey G. Smith: I need to, I need to, *Collateral*, I need to revisit what role Ruffalo played. I remember, uh, Jamie Foxx and of course, um, Tom.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Tom Cruise, yeah.
Casey G. Smith: Yeah, but is he the main bad guy in it or...
Reginald Titus Jr.: Ruffalo, I'm trying to remember. I don't know if he was like a hardened cop. He had like this goatee. Was it a, I don't know if he was playing a cop, but yeah, he was a little bit more rough around the edges kind of guy where and of course, in this one, Mark Ruffalo's got, but, he's got the bow tie. David Fincher kind of makes jokes, it's like an inside joke, you know, as he's from San Francisco going to these other counties. They, they're dressed in their little gray blazers and stuff and like, look at these, what city of sin cops or whatever.
Casey G. Smith: Right, because there's such a, such a contrast between how they look and how they're dressed. So, in *Collateral*, his character's name is Fanning. It's just a one-word name. I'm assuming he's, he's a police officer. I need to revisit that.
Reginald Titus Jr.: So I kind of noticed that. I don't know if David Fincher let that slip by accident or if he was really trying to say something about that, but I, I did catch that. We'll go right into like, you know, some of the bullet points. So, uh, number one, shooting can be painful. Um, as a director, um, if it isn't right, sometimes you have to, have to do the reshoots. And there's a, there's a scene where it's, he had to go back into the Chronicle, the, the San Francisco Chronicle in the, the room where they open up all the letters every time the Zodiac Killer send letters and they're opening up Robert Downey Jr. and all that. He reshot that scene because he felt like the letter didn't get to Jake Gyllenhaal, did I say it right?
Casey G. Smith: Gyllenhaal.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Uh, the right way. So they reshot it and they weren't, they weren't, the actors weren't too happy about that.
Casey G. Smith: No, and he repeats that line quite a few times in this commentary, where things are being reshot and he's like, yeah, Jake wasn't too happy about that or Robert wasn't too happy about that. And he'll say, oh, yeah, we did 22 takes there, you know, 33 takes there. Um, and it's interesting because, I mean, honestly, when we did *Scott Pilgrim vs. the World* last week, we would hear the same thing with, with Edgar Wright, sometimes doing these just multiple, multiple takes. But with that, you were doing, dealing with fight scenes, you know, and, and major choreography. This, we're talking about literally Jake Gyllenhaal, literally setting down a, a book or throwing the book out of his hand into the passenger seat of a car. Uh, let's do it again. Uh, one more time. Uh, cut, let's do it again. I'm just like, whoa.
Reginald Titus Jr.: No. What?
Casey G. Smith: Oh man. But like I said, you know, the end result, this is a, at the end of, at the end of the day, you get David Fincher results. Could it maybe be done differently? Yeah, who knows, but, you know, at this point in time, he's earned it, that's his method, but yeah, so many shots. So many shots taken.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Uh, point number two, creative license has, has been taken. Um, with the, with the presence of Paul Avery, um, whom Robert Downey is playing. Some of the things that Robert Downey is doing in the movie, the guy didn't really do, but they had to find a way to tell the story, so they had to bring him in the room some kind of way.
Casey G. Smith: Right, especially when they were like in some of the editorial scenes, like being in there with kind of the big brass, you know, where typically he may not have been there. But for the sake of the scene and getting the information quicker, okay, yeah, have him in there.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Yeah, that happened quite a, quite a few times. And I think it's, it's important too, when you, when you're making a movie like this, you will have to take the license because if not, then why not just shoot the documentary, right? If you want to tell how things actually, how they actually were, just shoot the documentary. Point number three, drug use associated with the name is a no-go. So there is a bar, uh, he didn't mention what the name of the bar was, but there's a scene with the Mortis bar. Um, that was the name they decided to use instead of the name of the real bar. So like there was some cocaine usage in the scene and things like that. And because of that, the name of the actual bar, they didn't want to be associated with that. So they can go forward. So just pay attention to things like that, um, especially we talk about the legalities of using certain things and when it's associated negatively on a brand, they don't want to be part of that.
Casey G. Smith: Good point.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Tip number four, um, hidden special effects. So David Fincher is known for his special effects. Yeah. But the thing about his effects, they're hidden, you don't really see them. He'll have hundreds and hundreds of visual effects shots that you don't notice, which is a good thing, but it can also increase, uh, the budget. So, for example, there's a shot where, um, it's a bridge and there's like a lot of graffiti on the bridge, but because this is a period piece, the graffiti has to go. And so they digitally erase all the graffiti from the bridge. And the reason this kind of stuff takes so long, they have to track this stuff frame by frame and they have to paint it out.
Casey G. Smith: So, along those lines, uh, in the, the visual effects feature, they talk about the, uh, the scene with the cab. And it's the one that's shot from the kind of the God's eye view perspective, as the cab is driving along, and you're tracking it, and it turns. Like, that whole street, as it's driving along, the buildings, it's digital. And that was just beginning to watch on the features, how they had where they were creating that. I was like, whoa, wait, what? And I remember Fincher talking about like they had brought in a lot of blue screens for, for that scene. They even had a guy that he knew who was kind of big in the industry and, and dealing with the effects and he kind of gave his stamp of approval and how good it looked. And when you see it, I can't tell, you might be able to tell, but I was like, this is amazing. And you're right, that is, uh, kind of Fincher's trademark. And we were talking earlier about how, you know, Fincher has this background coming from visual effects, right? You know, working with, um, Lucas Light, Light and Film, what's, what's the, I'm butchering the name.
Reginald Titus Jr.: ILM, I don't know the actual the acronym for it. Yeah.
Casey G. Smith: Well, ILM.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Industrial Light and Magic.
Casey G. Smith: Yes, yes. That's right? Yes, yes, Industrial Light and Magic. Our apologies. ILM. You guys know.
Reginald Titus Jr.: You know what it is.
Casey G. Smith: Yes. Where he had the chance to work on films like *Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom*, uh, *Star Wars*, and it may have been *Return of the Jedi*. But, so this visual effect background has obviously carried on into his career. Just like we see with Scorsese, that his background in editing has carried over into his career as a director. So for those of you who might be in film school and you may go in and maybe your initial goal is to be the next great director, cool. It's great to have that vision. While you're in film school, of course, you get opportunities to get exposed to multiple areas from lighting to sound, to editing, to directing, to casting. And so you may go through a point where you kind of lean more towards one and you may go and after school get hired to edit or work lighting. All the while, of course, you may be working on your script and different projects you have in mind. And then eventually you get your break and you get to direct. But now you get to bring in all this experience in these other areas to help frame or shape your projects and you now, you now might have this new bag of tools that make you a better director, even though you may not come out of the gate being a director. So, you know, don't let that discourage you or, uh, or think it's not going to happen. Just see it as just training to become a better director when your time comes.
Reginald Titus Jr.: The director that like who, whose, um, training before becoming a director really translate is, um, our director from *The Shape of Water*, Guillermo.
Casey G. Smith: Guillermo del Toro.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Del Toro. And his background in, in effects and model and creature design, and he's like a great artist, man. You see him draw, it's like, it's beautiful. And you can, he tends, his characters, he's creating these characters and it's, it's pretty awesome to see, to see his creations. It's, it's, it's pretty awesome. And it translate pretty well.
Casey G. Smith: His imagination. I mean, he's just, when I think of Guillermo del Toro, I think of just imagination. *The Shape of Water*, oh, man, I loved that film. Sorry, but yeah, I, I love that film. It just makes me, it makes me smile just thinking about it. Like, what?
Reginald Titus Jr.: I might have to, I might have to check that one out. I'm pretty sure he has special features. He's also another director that gives back with the special features. And, um, *Hellboy*, um, I think that's one, uh, *Pan's Labyrinth*. It's *Pan's Labyrinth*.
Casey G. Smith: Yeah.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Mm-hm. What's that still, it was on Amazon Prime.
Casey G. Smith: It was on Amazon Prime. I put it in my queue and I was going to watch it. And I messed around and I, and I missed when it, and it's now they want me to pay for it. I'm like, if I'm going to pay for it, I'd rather buy it. But I've heard, I've heard great things about that film. *Pan's Labyrinth*. You seen it?
Reginald Titus Jr.: Mm-hm. Yeah, that's what got me onto him. I was like, man, this guy is super talented. And then when I started discovering, you know, the Hellboy creatures and like his creatures that he creates and they're super freaky, weird, like, I don't know what he's tapping into when he's drawing this stuff. He has a dark place. Uh, but he...
Casey G. Smith: Guillermo del Toro. He's, uh, yeah, he's, he's special.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Special effects.
Casey G. Smith: Special effects.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Okay, the blood. Even the blood was digital in this film.
Casey G. Smith: Yep. The blade on the knife that stabs the, the, the second couple when he stabbed them, that was all digital.
Reginald Titus Jr.: And then he mentioned like this, because the blood is digital, it allows him to do more takes and allows him to be more efficient. And we know he likes to do a lot of takes. So, of course...
Casey G. Smith: It's like we got tired just from talking about when we were taking... man.
Reginald Titus Jr.: It's crazy. I don't know. I'm a fan of the practical stuff. Uh, but if you can pull it off, digital blood is hard to, to make convincing. It's difficult to do. You can tell when it's digital blood spraying everywhere.
Casey G. Smith: I think it maybe depends on how much, you know. If it's going to be like, like with like in that, in that scene where the young lady's getting stabbed, it's just, you know, enough to see where, you know, she's got the wound entry, the knife's been pulled out and just a little blood on the dress. So quick, also you couldn't, couldn't really tell. It's just like, you couldn't tell.
Reginald Titus Jr.: So on that one, there's also a close-up shot when he shot the guy in the neck and it's like, and it like sprays towards the camera, that's digital. That one you can kind of tell a little bit. Um, I don't know about the guy that was on the ground. When the officer came and he's on the ground by the tire, I don't know if that was practical or if that was actual blood.
Casey G. Smith: Mm.
Reginald Titus Jr.: And because there's not so much light showing off the blood, you can kind of get away with it a little bit more.
Casey G. Smith: Sure.
Reginald Titus Jr.: But David Fincher is actually like, he's pretty talented when it comes to this fake blood because even in the, uh, the, the *Girl with the Dragon Tattoo*, there's a scene with, uh, Daniel Craig, he's in the shower. He got cut in the head, he got grazed by a bullet. And so, um, the *Girl with the Dragon Tattoo*, she's like washing him off and cleaning him up and stuff like that. And while she's washing him off, the blood is washing off, it's actually digital blood.
Casey G. Smith: Oh, wow.
Reginald Titus Jr.: So he, he, they can pull it off. That it can get expensive though, to make it convincing. But I'm a fan of the, the practical blood. I don't know.
Casey G. Smith: On the fence. Yeah, that's.
Reginald Titus Jr.: But I can understand why you would do it though too, if you need those more takes. Also, there's a shot, you know, this, I don't know if this is necessarily a point, but, um, there was a shot where Robert Downey, he ends the scene with Robert Downey close-up. So he's one way and then he ends and leans towards the camera and he, he ends in a close-up. And Robert Downey didn't like it. He kind of like told David Fincher on his, I don't like it, gave him a hard time about it. And, you know, as a, as a director he's like, hey, this is what I want. But Robert Downey is saying that it, it feels more staged.
Casey G. Smith: Yeah.
Reginald Titus Jr.: So I'm like, yeah, it kind of does, you know, when someone like turns around and like, hello, and then they're like right to the camera. Yeah, it does feel staged. But, you know, it...
Casey G. Smith: You know, in, in light of that situation, just listening to his commentary, it sounds like he had a decent amount of collaboration with the actors. The times that they were able to bring in ideas and, uh, Gyllenhaal talked about one take that he, he went in and he just delivered a line in a certain way where I think it's where Robert Downey Jr. asked if he had ever, um, I don't know, smoked or drank before. And he was like, one time. You know, like, in high school. And like, that just kind of spoke to that character's like need to just kind of be honest with authority figures. Uh, so yeah, that was, that was fascinating. But it, it seems like he had some, at least some flexibility to let actors explore and, and do things that are consistent with their, with their characters.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Yeah, in high school.
Reginald Titus Jr.: And, yeah, he said that's like the the funniest, one of the funniest things said in this movie. So that kind of lets you know how, if that's the funniest line...
Casey G. Smith: Well, that's the benchmark right there. That's, that's, that's his, that's as light as it gets, ladies and gentlemen. That's it.
Reginald Titus Jr.: That's it.
Casey G. Smith: Oh man. Point number six, uh, period pieces are expensive. So there's a scene where they're outside, um, is it, um, one of the police stations, I don't know if it's, I can't think of the Valley something. And, uh, David Fincher asked like how much it would cost to take the satellites down. Like, cuz, you know, where they're shooting, it's like, how much would it cost? They said $40,000. They quoted him $40,000 for them to take all the satellites down. So instead of doing that practically, they painted them out frame by frame. Like, oh my goodness. Uh, the term is called rotoscoping. I'm pretty sure he saved some money on that one. But this is the type of work, but you got to know that it's possible. So you got to have either you know how to do that or you have somebody that's your special, um, effects coordinator, director, I'm sure, I don't know the actual term for it, that's over the special effects department. So, we'll go with visual effects coordinator. Make sure you have a person that knows what they're doing and they know what houses to go to. So I know one of the houses that they like to use is, uh, Digital Domain to do their special work. Like the, um, there's a scene, uh, Mark Ruffalo, um, visits right after the shooting of the taxi driver. And like that whole shot is just blue, it's all blue screen. It's a street and they're tracking Mark Ruffalo on a camera. And the whole background is blue screen and they have to paint that whole backdrop. And that's very difficult to do from a from a special effects standpoint because you're tracking Mark Ruffalo. So it doesn't look weird, so the background isn't moving while he's moving. So you have to track them together. So that while he's moving, the background stays in place too and that's difficult. So David Fincher's like, hey, um, I know he said he's going to be locked down, but he's actually going to be moving. What? So they're like, okay. Yeah, I think he mentioned that, was that the one on the phone call? He said, after I, after, after hearing some, uh, some words in the background, then they, uh, they finally were like, okay. Man, Fincher be pushing people to the end. To, yeah, to the edge and to infinity and beyond. Point number seven, I like the medium of film is very powerful. And this, and it has the power of affecting the public psyche. So there's a part in this movie where the *Dirty Harry* movie is being shown and talked about. And there was no closure. Like the Zodiac Killer, the Zodiac Killer was not caught. But after this film, people felt closure.

Themes, Storytelling, and Character Insights
Casey G. Smith: Exactly. Yeah, he did, he did talk about that. But it also spoke to the despair of that lack of closure from those Zodiac killings. But it was, um, yeah, it was interesting that going and seeing the film and, and, and seeing, again, things wrapped up with a bow, that, yeah, for the general public who knew about this thing as being a real thing, unlike us, so many years removed, I'm like, what? And then even at the end of the film, we're like, well, I want closure. You know, like you, you, you, you long for it. You really do long for that closure. That's why I'm like, I, I need to go see *Dirty Harry* again. I need to get the, the fake closure. And just being American, we have to have that, that's part of our programming.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Right. Exactly.
Casey G. Smith: As American. Closure is American.
Reginald Titus Jr.: You know, if this was like, you know, a foreign film, you know, like some of our Japanese films and things like that, they're more abstract and don't necessarily give you that. But as American, we're kind of used to having that, yeah.
Casey G. Smith: Can you just give me the answers? Tell me how to feel. Right.
Reginald Titus Jr.: I didn't come here to read. Did you try to philosophize me? I don't, I'm not into that. Just tell me how to feel. They talk about Americans and, and subtitles. We don't like to read the subtitles.
Casey G. Smith: Oh man. Yeah, it's, it's, it's sad but true.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Uh, point number eight, you can tell a story through a change in sound. Um, there's a scene where it goes four, it says four years later in the scene. He's going from like a mono sound to a stereo sound.
Casey G. Smith: Yep. Stereo sound.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Well, that was going on like, this is like an hour and 50 minutes. I'm like, this movie isn't done, he's doing new tricks.
Casey G. Smith: Yeah. And and that's, that, that is something that for an audience might be a little frustrating because all the murder scenes have already happened and all those scenes are done from the perspective of of the of those who are getting murdered, which is is interesting. But, yeah, that's done. Then you have the police hitting this dead end. And then now you're going to begin to get into, you know, the lead reporter. He's kind of failed, uh, and not, not able to get, you know, what he feels he needs. And then now Jake's character, who's kind of been floating around, is going to go to this next level of like obsession. And it's like, yeah, okay, we got, we got more to go. You kind of pause and look to see how much time is left. You're like, okay.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Just check out an hour.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Okay. Um, another point is, um, he was able to kind of capture how men talk and, and, you know, in this day and age, you know, we're doing, you know, it's a lot of, and of course it was like 2007, so, hey, we got a lot of, you know, women, you know, propaganda out, there's a lot of that in the atmosphere. So things when it, when you're talking about men, sometimes don't get brought up, you know. One of those things is how men talk. And in, and there was a shot where Mark Ruffalo and his partner is basically quitting. His partner's like kind of quitting and he's just like, hey, you, you okay? I didn't leave you hanging or, what did he say? What was the line he gave?
Casey G. Smith: Yeah, I'm not, I'm not, yeah, leaving any like unfinished business hanging or, or leaving you with like, you know, things on your, things, leaving things on your plate, something of that effect, like unfinished business, basically.
Reginald Titus Jr.: The way that men talk a lot of times is like straight to the point or sometimes things aren't said. It's more visual or the silence is telling you something. And you can kind of see Mark Ruffalo's face, like there's something more going on there, but he doesn't say it. And so I felt, uh, that was interesting that actually David Fincher, he mentioned that, you know, and then we'll try to convey that in that, in that, in that transaction there.
Casey G. Smith: Especially men of that time. Yeah, and just, you know, what were kind of accepted levels of communication. It's, it's, it might be a little different now, but yeah, definitely for back then, if you're talking '60s and '70s, you know, how men saw and defined themselves and level of communication, you know, there was no social media and sharing, you know, kind of level of, of communication. And these were, these were cops so they're expected to be even more tough. So, yeah, I thought I thought you had a, a good job of capturing that.
Reginald Titus Jr.: And one of the last points that I had on here was, um, so there's a scene where David Fincher has 66 takes. You kidding me? It's a, and the shot is literally Jake Gyllenhaal. You got it? It's waiting on Robert, uh, is waiting on Mark Ruffalo to come out. He's waiting, waiting, then he finally catches him. And it's one shot, it's one wide shot. We see the reaction from Gyllenhaal. You got it. I've been saying his name wrong for so long that it's, it's right in my brain. So, um, we follow him and then we wait on Mark Ruffalo's response to him. And then they start walking towards the camera and then the camera is walking back. And they have to hit all their marks. Everybody has to hit the marks, the extras, Mark, Jake, and also the steady cam operator. And if that doesn't all work out in that three, four, five minute exchange, we got to do it again. This could easily be like done quickly. All you need is a second camera and you don't need to track this and doesn't need to be a wide shot. But for whatever reason, you know, David Fincher tends to do that. So 66 takes to get that one shot. And then it cuts again to finish out the scene, there's another 22 takes to get that. And so this is just like, I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

Key Takeaways and Final Thoughts
Casey G. Smith: But it's a Fincher thing. At the end of the day, it is a Fincher thing. And, again, if you, if you got the budget, if you got the time, if the actors are willing to work with you and if I guess, I guess by any means necessary, I guess if at the end, if you get the results that you need, maybe it's okay, but it's, it's all still a maybe. And I guess if, if, if you did all that and you didn't get what he needed, then, then it's a problem. But right now it's, I don't know, it just, it just seemed like an annoyance. Like, especially when you hear that, you know, the actual people aren't happy in the process of, but they kind of know what to expect at this point. If I were ever in on a film with David Fincher, I'm like, okay, I, I better eat my Wheaties. Because it's going to be a long day. You know, we got some coverage and it could be just small things. There was a scene where Gyllenhaal and Ruffalo are sitting in the diner and there was a scene they did just multiple times over. And then at the end, I think he, I think he ended up going with the first one.
Reginald Titus Jr.: And it's like little subtle things and I don't know if it's just like his OCD nature or, or what it is, but I don't know if, if when I, when I saw their, their exchange, hey, it was fine. He said he went with the first one, but what made it seem like it wasn't good enough, you know?
Casey G. Smith: He said it was something about the feeling of it like that either Jake wasn't quite where he wanted him to be or I don't know. But you know, you mentioned the OCD aspect. He makes Fincher makes a comment in the commentary when he starts to talk about Gyllenhaal's character becoming kind of obsessed with justice and with the letters and trying to figure things out that Fincher mentioned that his father would at times kind of become obsessed with magic tricks. He would see a magic trick and then for days he would like be in his robe going around the house saying, how did they possibly pull that trick off? And as Fincher talks about that, I'm thinking, man, David, you seem just a little OCD yourself, a little obsessive, if you will. Again, not saying that's good or bad, but yeah, at the end of the day though, it, it, it works because so many of his films are, are amazing. And even just talking about his catalog now, I'm like, wow, you know what?
Reginald Titus Jr.: *The Game*, *Fight Club*.
Casey G. Smith: *The Game*.
Reginald Titus Jr.: That's Michael Douglas in *The Game*.
Casey G. Smith: You know, I don't know if I've seen *The Game*.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Oh, you're in for a treat.
Casey G. Smith: I have not seen *The Game*.
Reginald Titus Jr.: You're in for a treat. I still want to see *Panic Room*. I would, now, if his conversation, I want to revisit *The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo*. I did listen to, yeah, I did listen to the commentary on that one. Cuz I remember him talking about getting Rooney Mara to pick up smoking.
Casey G. Smith: I think we may have talked about the commentary before.
Reginald Titus Jr.: We did talk about that one.
Casey G. Smith: And it's, it's visual effects, that stuff they replaced at the show.
Reginald Titus Jr.: I'm kind of mad, and I'm kind of mad that one didn't do well at the box office because that deserved part two and part three.
Casey G. Smith: Well, they were, they were going to do a sequel. They ran into money problems. They ran into budget problems. I'm not saying it's Fincher's fault, but as far as in...
Reginald Titus Jr.: It's Fincher's fault. It is your fault. It is, it is your fault. You need to be more responsible.
Casey G. Smith: For the sequel, though, with the actors. They ran into challenges. I think, someone, there were some rumors that Daniel Craig wanted, you know, more money than they were willing to pay and that kind of, that may have been what tanked the sequel. But it was going, the sequel was, was in talks.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Okay. Yeah, I have to look up the box office again. I don't think it did as well as it should have done, but he probably could have shaved 20 million just from special effects.
Casey G. Smith: Yeah. But man, that, that, that opening sequence to it. *The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo*. That was just like, what is going on here? I don't know, but this is, I've never seen anything like that before. I'm like, what is this?
Reginald Titus Jr.: That was cool. Yeah, I like that one. That was a must say. Speaking of open sequences, the opening sequence in this movie before the actual movie starts, you have the old logos. Like you have the old, and when the movie started, just like when we saw, uh, *Scott Pilgrim* opening up with the 8-bit version of Universal, and then you open up with, uh, Paramount, the old Paramount sign. Like it's kind of giving the feel of the tone of the movie. Like, okay, here we are. It looks old. Again, that, but it's, it's that, that commitment to branding, you know, that from the very get-go, I want you to know where, where we're at and what this is about from opening sequence, the key art, Blu-ray. I, I appreciate that level of detail. So, yeah, that, that, that's commitment. That's seeing it all the way through, all angles, all back, all, all aspects of saying, okay, this is it. So, at the end of the day, regardless of what his films make box office wise, you can't get to deny the quality. It is quality. Always top-notch. Always top-notch. David Fincher is definitely one of my top, uh, directors that I like to follow. He'll be one of the people I would like to just be a, a bug on the wall just to kind of see what's going on. Maybe not work on the set, but just be there.
Casey G. Smith: It is quality. Oh, yeah.
Casey G. Smith: Reginald, we're going to have to set this one up again. Take 57. Let's go.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Okay. Tune in next time. Thank y'all for tuning in. Next time we're going to watch the movie *Looper*.
Casey G. Smith: Ryan Johnson. Ryan with an eye.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Oh, that's important.
Casey G. Smith: Thank y'all for tuning in. Until next time. Peace.
Reginald Titus Jr.: Peace.
Casey G. Smith: Peace.